Instead of locking threads,, just ban Rogue Hanger the troll

RH ,

While the sardonic tone of my ' easier to ban you than argue with you' posts has been lost on some, I must make the pedantic correction that Scotch Whisky is not 'Whiskey' , as the Irish drink is.

Always one for the important issues, me.
 
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Are you saying/assuming that increased immigration is desirable then RH ?. You seem to be dead set against reducing it..

As, for once, you've asked a reasonable question, albeit a closed question, I'll respond with a reasonable answer, although you probably won't like the answer. Next time perhaps you could open your mind to consider more open questions.

I'm aware that the situation is far too complex for the likes of you, me and the others on this forum, whatever their persuasion to arrive at a sensible or long-term definitive conclusion. It's certainly far too complex for anyone, such as Farage, with predetermined notions to attempt. He's seen the solutution and now he's looking to justify that solution by 'determining the problem'.

What I am also aware of, is the speed at which immigrants ae blamed for all the ills of society. Probably because they're an easy target. Unfortunately, as already alluded to in previous responses, it's not only the first generation immigrants who are discriminated against. It's often the second, third or subsequent generations that continue to suffer discimination. That serves no other pupose than to alienate some in society. Although, their ability to see beyond that discrimination is testament to their forebearance, patience and fortitude. Unlike those who resort to the discrimination.

I realise that prejudice is taught at home, and is difficult to eradicate later, as the saying by Bertrand Russell suggests.

But this is beside the point. (Although I'm sorely tempted to add, the analogy of corporal punishment).

Soemtimes, increased economic activity can only be fed by migrant labour. To discount that migrant labour is not only to risk reducing the speed or reversing that economic increase, but also having potential other detrimental effects, brought about by increased demand of labour and/or particular skills, over supply. But it's not a simple problem.
Imagine a silly situation, albeit a simple analogy, of a surfeit of skilled labour but a deficit of unskilled labour and no migration allowed. Either there's a massive explosion of robotics, or a silly situation of unskilled wages equalling or increasing beyong skilled wages. The motivation for training and even education is gone.

Sometimes, especially, perhaps in times of economic downturn, it might be desirable to reduce migrant labour but it's not a short-term problem/solution scenario. So it's not possible to effect any changes during that economic downturm and again it's not a simple problem and the undesirable consequences may be prolonged.

Of course some decisions have other effects, e.g. the EU, as did the British Empire, the Commonwealth, the World Wars, etc. Some of these effects are irreversible. The various governments must weigh up the benefits of such decisions, etc. Sometimes some decisions have to be taken irrespective of potential undesirable consequences. I don't believe that limiting/ reducing immigration is one of those decisions that has to be taken irrespecrive of the repercussions. From official reports it's evident that there are benefits to UK from migrant lablour, and this is during a period of economic downturn.

Migrant labour is caused by many, many situations, one of which is the human's natural desire to improve their 'lot'. Just like the old Cecil Rhodes/ Jeffrey Archer saying about birth being the first lottery in life, who has the right to decide that someone does not have the right to try to improve their 'lot' in life. To resort to artifical man-made structures i.e borders, to try to restrict access to resources, etc is probably just as natural as the attempt to improve one's 'lot'. But is that the type of person you aspire to be? You obviously don't wish to live in a meritocracy. I do. And I don't want to place any artificial limits in that meritocracy. But at the same time, I wish to live in a humane meritocracy. I've never heard that expression "humane meritocracy" before, have I just invented it?

To add to the confusion, labour migration is only a part of the equation, there's health, education, crime and safety, politics, climate, and I suspect many other aspects that cause people to want to migrate, temporarily or permanently.

Me, I migrated for the culture, for the slightly better climate, to be able to afford the kind of house and land that I wanted to achieve my dreams. I wanted to be able to do the things that I've always wanted to do. Who am I to deny that right to anyone else?

I appreciate that this post is far too long for some to be able assimilate. My apologies.

Here is my conclusion for those that don't want, or can't read it all:

"No." and here's a picture for you to look at: :eek:
 
Just done a bit of browsing for "Humane Meritocracy" and didn't find anything. But I did find something for "Compassionate Meritocracy" which is not the same thing I had in mind. Compassionate Meritocracy seems to be along the same lines but a limited or smaller mindset than "Humane Meritocracy", but not undesirable and probably something I've practised anyway.

'Consider what compassionate meritocracy entails'
http://www.singapolitics.sg/news/co...te-meritocracy-entails-lim-siong-guan[/QUOTE]
But I like his thinking:
He added that this would call for a different mindset from someone who says “I've thought this whole thing through, this is a perfect solution. Anybody who finds this not working very well, it's his problem, not mine.”



And, I found a book which looks promising but not altogether relevant:
Meritocracy and Economic Inequality edited by Kenneth Joseph Arrow, Samuel Bowles, Steven N. Durlauf
 
RH ,

While the sardonic tone of my ' easier to ban you than argue with you' posts has been lost on some, I must make the pedantic correction that Scotch Whisky is not 'Whiskey' , as the Irish drink is.

Always one for the important issues, me.

Thank you for your correction (albeit pedantic ;) ), Micilin. No serious, it's important.

So I can now put my hand on my heart and profess, "I rarely drink whiskey!" I think I recall seeing a French (Breton) whiskey/whisky on my travels but I don't recall how it was spelt (or how it tasted :eek: )
 
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They now admit that allowing over 2.2 million foreigners into the Uk was a big big mistake.
That's from the artichitects off the fiasco.
Don't you agree then?
Justify your figures first. With genuine research, reports and statistics, not newspaper claptrap.

Your located on French soil, the biggest rogues in the entire eu.
Suits you fine.
:LOL: Ah so, your prejudice is based on jealousy. :LOL:

Labours admission off incompetence is not newspaper claptrap. Far from it indeed.

Why should I be jealous off the biggest scoundrels in the eu?
Your clutching at straws now fella.
So you don't agree with ed then? :LOL:

Whether I agree with Ed or not is beside the point. I asked you to justify your figures, that's numbers to you. I've even highlighted the relevant 'numbers' and the word 'figures' so you're not confused. :rolleyes:

Character is letters. Figures is numbers, in this instance. I've kept it simple by not using the plural verb. OMG I've over-complicated it even further for you now. :eek:

Your opinion of the French is your opinion, until such times as you can provide some justification for your statement, and that ought to be the subject of a new and separate thread, don't ya think?
 
jockscott";p="3076771 said:
If you do decide to split, please take Blackpool with you as an enclave? :mrgreen:

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Ahh Blackpool is not so bad a place JBR. It comes alive during the Edinburgh and Glasgow trades fortnights. I dare bet they take more money in those 4 weeks than any other summer weeks. (must admit I now prefer Majorca or Ibiza though) , but have fond memories of Blackpool.

Not wishing to put down the Lankies, but Blackpool and Morecambe are both crap. I know; I've been to both of them on fact-finding missions. In Morecambe, they even stand dead bodies in bus shelters to make it look more lively.

If you want a better class of seaside resort, go to the East Coast: Scarborough and especially Whitby, both of which have much more character. But then, they are both in Yorkshire. :D
 
I happen to believe the quality of life is inversely proportional to the population.

I've lived in and visited very large countries and busy cities and also out in the sticks. It feels like a weight is lifted off your shoulders the second you get away from the Rat Race. (I too love it in France RH. Rode down to Monte' Carlo and onto the Millau Bridge last Summer. Beautiful! Spacious!)

This is why I say I don't care who my neighbour is there's simply no more room at the Inn! There are too many humans - period!

I would rather be called a misanthropist than a racist.
 
I would rather be called a misanthropist than a racist.

OK, but surely a misanthropist cannot be against the free movement of people, per se, unless, which seems to be your argument, they object to free movement of people around you, whoever they are. So an influx into your vicinity of say, Lancastrians, or Cornish would have you banging the drum against migration. Is that a pragmatic approach?

I wouldn't want to disagree with your attitude toward others. It's yours, but you are welcome to it.

I would clasify myself as a philanthropist, until such times as I'm persuaded otherwise on an individual-by-individual basis. That's philanthrope in its literal sense, not in its charitable sense.
 
BTW, BT, there are some cultural and circumstantial differences.
Some prefer and have the opportunity to live "in the sticks". Some prefer or must of necessity live in larger connurbations. Some aspire to live in the sticks, others, vice-versa.

You takes your choice, if you have the luxury of a choice.
 
Much was made of this study at the time of it's release http://www.cream-migration.org/publ_uploads/CDP_22_13.pdf


So what about this one http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/assumptionsandwizardry.pdf[/QUOTE]

Sorry, rather belatedly got round to this one.

So what about the studies? The first carried out by two individuals, of no assigned vocation from University College London, with no sponsorship, so I assume with no political axe to grind, and the second by an individual of no reported vocation, from the same college, sponsored by Civitas ("Civitas is financed from a variety of private sources" from the report) as a direct critique of the first report, somewhere between one and thirty days later.

Having briefly scanned the two reports I find that the first is well laid out and reasonably presented, well researched, with statistical evidence.
I find the second rambling and opinionated without much initial evidential support until one becomes rather bored of the rambling aguments and colloquial expressions. Then the true investigation of precise points starts.

But, please note that the second report concludes, just before the last page, with: "Cream set out to provide no more than substantive evidence on immigrants’ fiscal contribution but the authors’ own estimation of their achievement is that they have done better than that—"
So the second report starts out looking like a critique and denial of the Cream report, but actually concludes that they under-represented the benefit of immgration.

Civitas has also sponsored a report: "Putting Britain's relationship with Brussels and other European institutions under the spotlight, Civitas's work has recently explored the costs of membership of the EU, the
likely impact of a "Brexit" and the erosion of UK democracy since 1973." So now we know where their loyalties firmly lie.

I'll need to spend some time on the two reports to give a better reply. But in the meantime, what's your opinion?
 
As for the Scottish question you asked, I sincerely hope that the Union isn't broken this September. I very much feel that Scotland would be better as part of a United Kingdom. (wouldn't want to have to get a passport to visit Blackpool now,, ) would I ?

I bet one of these you're wrong:
 
They now admit that allowing over 2.2 million foreigners into the Uk was a big big mistake.
That's from the artichitects off the fiasco.
Don't you agree then?
Justify your figures first. With genuine research, reports and statistics, not newspaper claptrap.

Your located on French soil, the biggest rogues in the entire eu.
Suits you fine.
:LOL: Ah so, your prejudice is based on jealousy. :LOL:

Labours admission off incompetence is not newspaper claptrap. Far from it indeed.

Why should I be jealous off the biggest scoundrels in the eu?
Your clutching at straws now fella.
So you don't agree with ed then? :LOL:

Whether I agree with Ed or not is beside the point. I asked you to justify your figures, that's numbers to you. I've even highlighted the relevant 'numbers' and the word 'figures' so you're not confused. :rolleyes:

Character is letters. Figures is numbers, in this instance. I've kept it simple by not using the plural verb. OMG I've over-complicated it even further for you now. :eek:

Your opinion of the French is your opinion, until such times as you can provide some justification for your statement, and that ought to be the subject of a new and separate thread, don't ya think?

New labour have admitted they got it wrong. You don't seem to accept that.
Why?
Official figures reveal they added 3 million to the uk population.
And its probably more like 5 million.

Some numbers for you....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ation-immigrants-We-attract-twice-France.html

Over half a million in 2011 alone.
The uk is just like a big turd now with flies swarming to get in. Soon be time to start swatting.
If the numbers in the link are wrong then prove it. (he won't) :LOL:
 
I would rather be called a misanthropist than a racist.

OK, but surely a misanthropist cannot be against the free movement of people, per se, unless, which seems to be your argument, they object to free movement of people around you, whoever they are. So an influx into your vicinity of say, Lancastrians, or Cornish would have you banging the drum against migration. Is that a pragmatic approach?

I wouldn't want to disagree with your attitude toward others. It's yours, but you are welcome to it.

I would clasify myself as a philanthropist, until such times as I'm persuaded otherwise on an individual-by-individual basis. That's philanthrope in its literal sense, not in its charitable sense.

Yeah philanthrope in the literal sense is a lot easier on the ole pocket eh?
And worth sweet fa to some poor child starving in Africa. Your starting to show your true colours now friendo.
You claim to care but in truth you don't!

Philanthropist?....pfft
 
Did anyone watch the program on Channel 5 tonight?? "Gypsies on benefits and proud." ?? I do hope RH watched it. It was all about Roma gypsies coming to the UK to "earn" benefits (like JSA, ESA and disability benefits) One (looked about 50 ) was sincerely hoping to get around £40,000 in benefits, so he could build his dream house back in Romania.. What an eye opener. ;) ;) ;)
 
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