Intermediate neon switch

[regsmyth]

Revisiting an unresolved matter...
I want to be able to turn on all the outside lights on simultaneously from any of the (four or five) switches, and so that the lights don't get left on accidentally, I want the switches to have neon lights, all the neons would light when the outside lights are on, and all would go off when the outside lights are switched off.
I would need intermediate switches with neons. Can anyone tell me where I'd get these?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Never seen one. Suggest you get a grid switch with intermediate switch and neon modules.

 

[regsmyth]

Thanks TTC.
Haven't looked at grid switches before, I take it I would use a normal back box, then get a two module grid, and a two module front plate, and one intermediate module and one neon module.
Then somehow use a 3C+E with extra DI single core neutral linking all the switches together to make it all work. Am I missing anything ?(apart from wiring diagram..)
Thanks again.

 

[Spark123]

You may need to run a twin and earth to each neon connected in parallel to the lights for it to work as you describe.
It depends how you wire them.

 

[regsmyth]

Aha, so there's more than one way to wire it all up..
The int grid module presumably has four terminals, just like a normal int switch, and the neon has just L+N, will I be able to work out how the whole setup would be wired up just by drawing it out, or could you point me at a similar setup for clues?
Thanks.

 

[tim_s_uk]

You just need live, neutral and 'switched live' at each box.
In each box the switch connects between live and 'switched live'. The neon indicator connects between 'switched live' and neutral.

It depends on the location of your switches as to whether you daisy chain them with 3 core and earth, or run cables from each switch back to a junction box.

 

[Space cat]

You'll need two extra wires - switched live and neutral - to connect all your neons together. With two way switching you can get away with just a neutral because you have switched live at each two-way switch. Once you add intermediate switches, live feed and switched live can change places so you can't feed the neon from any of the switch terminals.

To wire this up, use the standard circuit for multi-way switching then use two core cable to connect all the neons in parallel with the lights.

 

[toasty]

Just a thought, (well two actually)

1) you could do the exact opposite of what you want by connecting the neons across the L1 and L2, this way the neons would light when the lights were off (due to the relatively high impedance of the neons vs the relatively low impedance of the outside lights)

2) I'm sure the answer is no, but here goes, is it ever permissable to wire from live to earth....? The reason I ask is that you could save yourself a neutral by connecting in this way, and neons don't really take much current. A permanent neon screwdriver you might say!

 

[plugwash]

you can do it with four current carrying conductors.

incoming live to the common of the first switch.

strappers along the chain of switches.
switched live taken from the common of last switch and brought back along the line of switches (feeding the neons on the way)
neutral along the chain of neons

 

[stargazer]

2) I'm sure the answer is no, but here goes, is it ever permissable to wire from live to earth....? The reason I ask is that you could save yourself a neutral by connecting in this way, and neons don't really take much current. A permanent neon screwdriver you might say!

What’s a tiny bit of earth leakage between friends?

 

[tim_s_uk]

I've not seen a four or five way system with intermediate switches - sounds fun!

 

[Space cat]

1) you could do the exact opposite of what you want by connecting the neons across the L1 and L2, this way the neons would light when the lights were off (due to the relatively high impedance of the neons vs the relatively low impedance of the outside lights)

I don't like that one. It means the outside lights aren't properly isolated when you switch off.

2) I'm sure the answer is no, but here goes, is it ever permissable to wire from live to earth....? The reason I ask is that you could save yourself a neutral by connecting in this way, and neons don't really take much current. A permanent neon screwdriver you might say!

You might get away with it but it's definitely bad practice. If the job's worth doing, it's worth doing well.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Just a thought, (well two actually)

2) I'm sure the answer is no, but here goes, is it ever permissable to wire from live to earth....? The reason I ask is that you could save yourself a neutral by connecting in this way, and neons don't really take much current. A permanent neon screwdriver you might say!

FFS, what do you think your insulation resistance would look like?
And have pity on the poor electrician who (in 10 years time) does a PIR and has to work out the crap results....

 

[RF Lighting]

I've not seen a four or five way system with intermediate switches - sounds fun!

 

[333rocky333]

Same way as said for your other posts
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=129224
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=129530


use 4core and earth between the switches.
two for the strappers ,and neon L+N with the other two
As others say a intermediate neon switch is not made as the switch contacts constantly change.