internal fuse in tungsten filament lamps?

[johnorford]

When I worked for Osram fifty years ago, I seem to remember that quality tungsten filament lamps had an internal fuse to avoid taking out the circuit fuse or tripping the breaker. I have had several cases of this happening, including two with lamps that appear to be Philips.

Now I live outside the UK but thought it better to post this one here, as my house is wired British system and the wiring isn't really relevant. I'm wondering if these lamps are fakes - a common thing here. Do TF lamps still have the internal fuse?

 

[bhm1712]

i dont think many of them do. Especiallly since development of incandescent lamps has pretty much ceased since the ban on domestic sales and manufacture of incandescents. They are only legally allowed for manufacture and sales into industrial markets now. ...or at least thats how its supposed to be. They can still be purchased from various outlets as rough service lamps by anybody....

I have only ever come across one lamp with an internal fuse and this was an Osram 100w lamp.

 

[securespark]

I can't speak for markets outside the UK, but of those TF lamps still for sale inside the UK, the good quality ones do have. Sometimes it is written on the packaging: internally fused for safety.

When I started as a spark, GE lamps used to put on the box "fitted with ballotini fuse for safety". Here's pictures of later packaging:

http://www.petershed.co.uk/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=2378

I was told jokingly by the lecturer that the fuse was named after the Italian bloke who invented it, but found out some years later he was just pulling my leg... the "ballotini" are glass beads that surround the fusewire inside the lamp.

Indeed some dimmer manufacturers like MK used to put (don't know whether they still do as it's a while since I've bought one!) a warning in the box saying that lamps used with their dimmers had to be fused otherwise their dimmers would get toasted when the lamps failed.

Of course, in the good old days (oh yes, I remember them well...), MK and other dimmer manufacturers used to put fuses in the dimmers to protect them from failed lamps. Excellent idea. They don't do that now because they are penny-pinching.

Of course, when most people think of lamps that cause damage when they fail, they imagine the old GLS type, but don't forget our old friend the GU10. My recent experiences with GU10's have shown that it has overtaken the GLS as #1 dimmer killer...

 

[winston1]

i dont think many of them do. Especiallly since development of incandescent lamps has pretty much ceased since the ban on domestic sales and manufacture of incandescents. They are only legally allowed for manufacture and sales into industrial markets now. ...or at least thats how its supposed to be. They can still be purchased from various outlets as rough service lamps by anybody....

I have only ever come across one lamp with an internal fuse and this was an Osram 100w lamp.

There is no legal ban as you suggest. It is an unenforceable agreement. All the big shops are towing the line but incandescent lamps are still readily available in the pound and 99p shops. They tend to be cheap imports though so probably no fuses.

To the OP. Is it legal to wire your house to the British system in the Philippines?

 

[bhm1712]

i dont think many of them do. Especiallly since development of incandescent lamps has pretty much ceased since the ban on domestic sales and manufacture of incandescents. They are only legally allowed for manufacture and sales into industrial markets now. ...or at least thats how its supposed to be. They can still be purchased from various outlets as rough service lamps by anybody....

I have only ever come across one lamp with an internal fuse and this was an Osram 100w lamp.

There is no legal ban as you suggest. It is an unenforceable agreement. All the big shops are towing the line but incandescent lamps are still readily available in the pound and 99p shops. They tend to be cheap imports though so probably no fuses.

To the OP. Is it legal to wire your house to the British system in the Philippines?

I worded my post wrong ill admit, but non directional incandescent lamps, once exisiting stock has ran out, are banned from sale for domestic purposes. Outlets are allowed to sell exisiting left over stock but manufacturers and sellers are no longer allowed to manufacture and sell new (not current stock) ones. The only permitted avenue is for commercial use - rough service lamps.

2005/32/EC is the directive which covers ecodesign and how GLS lamps are non compliant.

If i recall, halogen lamps will also be banned within the next 5 years, the so called "new alternative better than incandescent" that i keep seeing in the shops will also disappear from the shelves. Then we will have CFL and LED.

 

[winston1]

[quote="bhm1712";p="2709350"
I worded my post wrong ill admit, but non directional incandescent lamps, once exisiting stock has ran out, are banned from sale for domestic purposes.

Please give the source of this information. My understanding is that this so called ban is unenforceable. There is no law banning such sales, it is just an agreement.

If it was illegal how do the pound an 99p shops still get away with importing and selling them?

 

[bhm1712]

[quote="bhm1712";p="2709350"
I worded my post wrong ill admit, but non directional incandescent lamps, once exisiting stock has ran out, are banned from sale for domestic purposes.

Please give the source of this information. My understanding is that this so called ban is unenforceable. There is no law banning such sales, it is just an agreement.

If it was illegal how do the pound an 99p shops still get away with importing and selling them?

The directive I already quoted is the one which deals with non directional incandescent lamps. It is illegal to import or purchase new stock and sell or for domestic purposes. It's not an agreement it's an EU law. As I have said already directional lamps e.g spots or reflectors are still permitted as are rough service lamps for industry. Nothing to stop homeowners buying rough service lamps however...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There's an article about the upcoming "bans" in the latest Wiring Matters. Not online yet...

I think next up are halogen MR16s

AIUI, the ban is on the manufacture within, or import into, the EU, so a retailer could replenish stocks from anywhere within the EU if they exist.

Maybe someone is stockpiling lamps in a warehouse in Croatia as we speak....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Duplicate

 

[winston1]

[quote="bhm1712";p="2709350"
I worded my post wrong ill admit, but non directional incandescent lamps, once exisiting stock has ran out, are banned from sale for domestic purposes.

Please give the source of this information. My understanding is that this so called ban is unenforceable. There is no law banning such sales, it is just an agreement.

If it was illegal how do the pound an 99p shops still get away with importing and selling them?

The directive I already quoted is the one which deals with non directional incandescent lamps. It is illegal to import or purchase new stock and sell or for domestic purposes. It's not an agreement it's an EU law. As I have said already directional lamps e.g spots or reflectors are still permitted as are rough service lamps for industry. Nothing to stop homeowners buying rough service lamps however...

Read this as you don't believe me.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...Defra-confirms-its-bulb-ban-is-not-legal.html

Also you have not answered my point regarding pound and 99p shops still selling them.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6143644/Defra-confirms-its-bulb-ban-is-not-legal.html

I suggest that unless you want to be regarded as being as deranged as him that you do not rely on things written by Mr Booker.

When asked what UK law establishes it as an offence to sell or import normal incandescent bulbs in Britain, all Defra can come up with is a 2007 regulation, SI 2037...

EC Regulation 244/2009 implementing Directive 2005/32/EC with regard to ecodesign requirements for non-directional household lamps entered into force in April 2009. As an EC regulation it required no transposition into UK law.

Also you have not answered my point regarding pound and 99p shops still selling them.

Old stock?

Non-household?

Just what are they selling, in terms of wattage and clear/frosted glass?

 

[flameport]

The 'ban' if people must call it that is simply a restriction on the production and importation of lamps falling below a certain efficiency.
It doesn't just apply to incandescent lamps - plenty of other types have been and will be included.

If people have hoarded vast stocks of old, inefficient lamps, they can still sell them.
The fact that they are still for sale years later indicates either there are vast warehouses of the things stashed away, or most people don't buy them any more.

As for newspapers - probably the least credible and most unreliable sources of information you can find.

 

[bhm1712]

As already stated numerous times - if stock exists then the sale and distribution of those lamps is permitted.

Thanks for backing me up gents.

At the end of the day, if one wishes to purchase incandescent lamps that are indeed new and not old stock, then all you have to do is go online or visit an electrical retailer and purchase rough service lamps. They are marketed as being heavier duty than domestic lamps, however their appearance and light output is the same.

However, i fail to see why anybody would continue to use incandescent lamps other than for special purposes with todays energy prices. There are much better and cheaper to run alternatives out there. I now just ignore the blurb written on CFL and LED lamp boxes and just purchase based on the lumen output. A 23 watt, 1400 lumen CFL produces a far better quality light than a GLS 100 watt pearl or clear lamp, and for almost 80% less cost to run than a 100 watt GLS

 

[JBR]

When I worked for Osram fifty years ago, I seem to remember that quality tungsten filament lamps had an internal fuse to avoid taking out the circuit fuse or tripping the breaker.

Until we recently changed fittings to those for halogen bulbs, we had ordinary tungsten bulbs with ballotini fuses which used to blow with amazing regularity. They always tripped the breaker, however!

 

[333rocky333]

Just what are they selling, in terms of wattage and clear/frosted glass?

I see some in a sort of pound shop type store and they were non fused 60 and 100 pearl ROUGH SERVICE at 4 for a pound which is good considering they used to cost over £1 each.

These and a lot i have seen on markets seem to be manufactured by MAXIM based in the uk.

http://www.maximlamps.co.uk/products.html