Is a new RCD / Breaker in my consumer unit notifiable

[CrazeUK]

Hi Guys.
So I have been on a DIY mission in my rental flat whilst I am ill.

I wanted to install a cooker hood in the kitchen, so I bought a standard one from currys some time ago.

This is the one I bought

It has a 3 pin plug on it.

So noticing there wasn't a 3 pin socket any where above the units I wanted to add one. I noticed there was some spare points on the consumer unit, so got some 2.5mm (with earth) grey cable wired it into the unit and added a 16amp RCD to it. I ran the grey cable through an existing surface mount conduit that houses the shower cable and attached a standard single socket to it.

Is this notifiable?

 

[ericmark]

I would say yes. It's a new circuit.

It will likely cost your a couple of hundred pounds so just like when you tell the police each time you allow your car to exceed the speed limit you must tell the council you added a new circuit without notifying first.

You will also need to add a MCB to the RCD as RCD's do not protect from overload.

What is the crazy bit is if you had connected to the 32A MCB for the ring main and made it a spur then you would not need to notify.

It the work only required you to complete a minor works certificate then no need to notify but if it requires an installation certificate then you do. So which certificate did you complete when you finished the work?

 

[Taylortwocities]

and added a 16amp RCD to it.

I don't think you did!
Didnt you add a 16 amp MCB ??

 

[CrazeUK]

and added a 16amp RCD to it.

I don't think you did!
Didnt you add a 16 amp MCB ??

lol my bad. your right. I am confusing my self.

 

[JohnW2]

As eric has said, this is one situation in which the rules about notification are essentially crazy. I don't think that there is any doubt that what you have done (add an MCB and use it to feed just one socket) constitutes 'adding a new circuit' - hence notifiable. However, as eric also said, all you need to do is remove the new MCB and shift the cable onto an MCB serving a sockets circuit (together with the conductors already connected to that MCB) and it then just becomes a spur (if a ring circuit) or branch (if a radial circuit) of that existing circuit, and is hence not notifiable (even in Wales, where notification requirements are more extensive than in England).

If you are concerned about having something in your house which should have been notified, but wasn't, then I would suggest that you make the change that I've just suggested and 'forget' that the installation ever went through the phase it's currently in!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

It the work only required you to complete a minor works certificate then no need to notify but if it requires an installation certificate then you do.

I don't think that "rule of thumb" always works even in Wales, let alone England, does it? (e.g. how about minor modifications to existing circuits within bathroom zones)

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Any new wiring be it existing or new circuit which is buried in a wall at less than 50mm will require either to be one of the specials like Ali-tube to BS 8436 or protected by a RCD.

The socket unless marked for a special appliance only will also required RCD protection.

You originally said it had RCD protection now you say that is a MCB.

What I see as the stumbling block is the "rental" bit and if I was renting a house or flat one I would want to be in the loop for any work done to the fabric of the building and two I would have to have the paper work trail to show all items had been tested and inspected at reasonable intervals both to satisfy insurers and to protect me if something should go wrong.

The Genital man's agreement and shake of the hand is no longer good enough. Reading the different reports on the above some facts seem to change according to which you read. But it would seem both parties did know there was a fault and the old lady had engaged an electrician to look into it. But the young lady moved in before the tests and repairs were made.

Once any thing like this happens the authorities will go through the property and the paperwork with a fine toothed comb. It would seem with owner occupier the courts do tend not to fine people who by accident have killed their loved ones they have some compassion. But it's very different with rental.

The problem is clearly the LABC charges and of course you can't claim fitting a cooker hood is emergency work. You can read the Part P and punch holes in it and maybe find a way around paying the LABC but still you need to forward the minor works to the land lord. To complete a minor works you will need test gear and likely to hire the test gear will cost more than it cost to do the whole job.

Sorry I missed rental bit when I first read and if it was a owner occupier I would say maybe get an electrician to cast an eye over it but don't worry about Part P but rental is very different.

What would I do if I was in your position? I would employ a scheme registered electrician and ask him to re-do your work correcting anything needing correcting including if required pull it all out and start again and get the certificates from him to say it's all correct. That will likely be cheaper than going to LABC.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is, quite possibly, another issue to consider.

... rental flat ...

Are you the tenant, or the landlord?

If the former, what's the landlord's attitude to electrical work done by tenants, rather than competent electricians?

It ought to be "absolutely no way". Look at it from your point of view as a tenant - would you be happy living in a flat where unqualified, possibly incompetent people, had been fiddling with the electrics?

If the latter, are you discharging your duty of care to your tenants if you DIY on the electrical installation? Does your insurance policy allow it?

I ran the grey cable through an existing surface mount conduit that houses the shower cable and attached a standard single socket to it.

Was that OK from the point of view of the cable size factors vs the conduit space factor?

Did you recalculate the CCC of the shower cable allowing for derating because of grouping?

Was the new circuit RCD protected?

 

[ericmark]

It the work only required you to complete a minor works certificate then no need to notify but if it requires an installation certificate then you do.

I don't think that "rule of thumb" always works even in Wales, let alone England, does it? (e.g. how about minor modifications to existing circuits within bathroom zones)

Kind Regards, John

It would not in Wales but he says Manchester and although there are some towns with the same name I know of no Manchester's in Wales.

I agree with bathrooms it all changes but clearly not talking about a bathroom.

What I missed was the word "Rental" and that's more of a problem. It clearly raises the question notify who?

I would think he will need to notify the land lord even if he alters the installation so he does not need to notify the LABC. Once he down loads the blank minor works certificate he needs to fill in and sees what has to be entered he will realise a multi-meter is not good enough. When my test set was sent for calibration I went to hire a replacement minimum hire was a week and it seems once hired it needs re-calibration before next hire so it was rather expensive in the end found one for £75 but that was 10 years ago. And clearly one does need to know how to use it.

So it's one of four options.
1) LABC and send copies to land lord.
2) Scheme member electrician and tell him to do what ever is required even if that means rip out and start again and send copies to land lord.
3) Tell the land lord sorry did not realise and pay what ever the land lord asks for to correct the work.
4) Rip it all out again and make good.

I am glad I don't live in rented accommodation.

 

[JohnW2]

It the work only required you to complete a minor works certificate then no need to notify but if it requires an installation certificate then you do.

I don't think that "rule of thumb" always works even in Wales, let alone England, does it? (e.g. how about minor modifications to existing circuits within bathroom zones

It would not in Wales but he says Manchester ... I agree with bathrooms it all changes but clearly not talking about a bathroom.

Fair enough. I realise that we are not talking about bathrooms, but I thought that you were stating a general "rule of thumb" - which, as I said, would not always work (e.g. for some work in bathrooms) in either England or Wales. Apologies if I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I hope nobody thinks I'm mocking, but...

The Genital man's agreement and shake of the hand

I'd rather not shake hands, or anything, with genitals involved.

 

[ericmark]

Dam these spell checkers I had not noticed what it had done. Anyway good for a laugh.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Indeed.

I was once composing an email at work, about a problem I was having , and I wanted to use the word "helpdesk", which the mail client didn't recognise. In a moment of utterly delicious irony, which will appeal to anybody who has ever tried to get a non-trivial problem resolved by internal first-line support people, the mail client suggested "helpless" as the correct spelling.

 

[Taylortwocities]

and added a 16amp RCD to it.

I don't think you did!
Didnt you add a 16 amp MCB ??

lol my bad. your right. I am confusing my self.

And there's the issue, and why notification is required for major works, like a new circuit. You could not be competent to do the work if you do not even know what the components are called.

Even more concerning if you are doing works in a property that you will be renting out.

 

[deadshort]

Indeed.

I was once composing an email at work, about a problem I was having , and I wanted to use the word "helpdesk", which the mail client didn't recognise. In a moment of utterly delicious irony, which will appeal to anybody who has ever tried to get a non-trivial problem resolved by internal first-line support people, the mail client suggested "helpless" as the correct spelling.

Ha Ha - such wit