Is an extractor fan in cloakroom notifiable?

[EFLImpudence]

I interpreted those exchanges as riveralt and yourself suggesting (or condoning) that the FCU could be used as the isolator. Have I misunderstood (riveralt and/or yourself)?

I'm not sure you have.

Thinking about it now I don't really know what I thought or what was meant.

You can only do that with a double pole light switch as well.

If you used the SFCU as the light switch/isolator the fan timer won't work.
I'm confused now.

 

[EFLImpudence]

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What a superb, clear drawing.

And it shows that if you use the FCU as the isolator, the light stays on and all 3 poles to the fan are isolated.

 

[JohnW2]

<a wiring diagram>

That is obviously fine, electrically, and even the 'isolation' of the fan is fine, electrically (isolating all three conductors going to the fan) - but do you think it would satisfy Mr Jobsworth (hence Mr BS7671-obsessed) if the fan's MIs explicity called for a '3-pole isolator'?!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

...Have I misunderstood (riveralt and/or yourself)?

I'm not sure you have. ... Thinking about it now I don't really know what I thought or what was meant. ... You can only do that with a double pole light switch as well. ... If you used the SFCU as the light switch/isolator the fan timer won't work. ... I'm confused now.

I'm glad that it wasn't just me

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

do you think it would satisfy Mr Jobsworth (hence Mr BS7671-obsessed) if the fan's MIs explicity called for a '3-pole isolator'?

It would have to - there would be no way that anybody could successfully argue that it did not in any context which actually mattered.

 

[JohnW2]

do you think it would satisfy Mr Jobsworth (hence Mr BS7671-obsessed) if the fan's MIs explicity called for a '3-pole isolator'?

It would have to - there would be no way that anybody could successfully argue that it did not in any context which actually mattered.

You are talking 'common sense', a language which Mr Jobsworth does not necessarily speak or understand.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Can you conceive of a scenario in which Mr Jobsworth's view would be of importance and in which he could not be successfully challenged?

 

[JohnW2]

Can you conceive of a scenario in which Mr Jobsworth's view would be of importance and in which he could not be successfully challenged?

Well, if he'd coded it as non-compliant on an EICR I suppose it could be of importance to someone. As for successfully challenging him, I'm sure that you, I and many others could very strongly challenge him in an intellectual sense, but whether that would necessarily count as 'succesful' (if he stuck to his Jobsworth guns) and whether there is a realistic mechanism (courts would, IMO, not be realistic) for challenging an EICR, once it's been issued, I don't really know!

Kind Regards, John

 

[riveralt]

Why not make the Dual pole isolator FCU your switch.

I want a timed fan. Would your suggestion not mean I either 1. Have to have the switched live unfused or 2. Have the lights inoperable when the FCU is switched off?
Cheers

Not looked for a while with the Tour de France and cricket to watch (well hide behind the couch) and a bit of work to do!

Sorry I didn't pick up on the fact that you were after a timed fan - clearly this won't work with an FCU alone.

I personally think the introduction of an FCU, especially on a lighting circuit, is a get out for the manufacturers if something goes wrong with the fan.

Another option, which complies with MI's and your requirements and keeps everything at the switch is to utilise the mini-grid system.
This will allow you to have a fused switch and three pole isolator in the same, albeit slightly larger, switch.

Bring 3 core and earth from the ceiling rose light, utilising the live (brown), and neutral (black) to the supply side of the fuse switch and take the grey(brown sleeving) back to the ceiling rose as switch live load - connect the earths.

Take 3 core and earth from the fuse switch to the three pole isolator(3PI) switch.
That is brown from the fuse switch supply live to the 3PI (in) permanent live.
The grey(brown sleeving) from the fuse switch (switch live load) to the 3PI(in) switch live and the black from the supply side neutral to the 3PI(in) neutral. Also run the earths as well.

Then from the 3PI(out) Live, switch live, neutral and earth to the timer fan.
You probably won't need the earth at the fan but it helps with testing.

This way you can have your fan on the timer or not on at all and your light linked to the fan or not at all. And I think it will comply with the MI's.

 

[doinuptheouse]

What an excellent idea, never thought of that one! A very elegant solution.

Many thanks

 

[EFLImpudence]

I can only claim credit for clicking on it.

Not sure who actually drew it or thought of it first.

Lots more excellent ideas in the Wiki.

 

[JohnW2]

What an excellent idea, never thought of that one! A very elegant solution.

If you do decide to adopt that solution, which I agree is elegant, and certainly electrically within the spirit of '3-pole isolation', I would strongly suggest that you make sure that you keep a diagram of that wiring in a conspicuous place (probably near your CU), since I can imagine that a good proportion of people working on the installation in the future could get very confused by it - 'elegant wiring solutions' (as opposed to the 'plumb standard') are not things which are very conspicuous in the books or training courses!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Then from the 3PI(out) Live, switch live, neutral and earth to the timer fan. You probably won't need the earth at the fan but it helps with testing.

... and also helps in terms of compliance with the regs!

Kind Regards, John

 

[riveralt]

Then from the 3PI(out) Live, switch live, neutral and earth to the timer fan. You probably won't need the earth at the fan but it helps with testing.

... and also helps in terms of compliance with the regs!

Kind Regards, John

Trouble finding that regulation can you help