Is it a new circuit or an addition to an existing circuit...

[EmceeArsey]

I hired an electrician recently to install a new radial circuit to supply a hob. I will have the hob installed at a later date.

I expected the electrician to do something like the following:

• Install an RCCB protected 32A MCB in the consumer unit.
• Run about 4 meters of 6mm2 twin and earth (in void behind a skirting board then behind kitchen units)
• Install suitable cooker DP isolation switch (in cupboard next to oven)

I actually bought the T&E and fed the wire through the skirting board in advance, but would have been happy if the electrician wanted to redo this step. I wanted to make sure the cable would fit without having to redecorate.

I believed this work would constitute a new circuit and therefore it would be notifiable work: not for me to do as I'm not in a registered competent persons scheme.

The electrician, made use of an existing redundant and disconnected 32A MCB in the CU (a shower I had had removed during a bathroom renovation). That and the 32A mains ring MCB are connected to an existing RCCB. I kind of expected this.

The electrician did not provide me with paper work.

I expected an Electrical Installation Certificate because it's a new circuit, but the electrician said it wasn't notifiable because the circuit already existed. If he is correct (and he may very well be, I don't know) then this work is not notifiable as it is not listed in Rule 12(6A) but I believe I should still get a Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate, right?

So: Two questions:

1. Is this a new circuit?
2. What paperwork should I have received if any?

If you can shed some light on this for me it'd be much appreciated.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is this a new circuit?

It could be argued either way.

What paperwork should I have received if any?

You should get a certificate for all work; it is nothing to do with whether notifiable or not.

Horizontally behind skirting is not an acceptable place to run cable; is that what you meant?

 

[plugwash]

Is this a new circuit?

I don't think you will find a definitive answer to that question.

What paperwork should I have received if any?

My understating is that BS7671 requires all work to be certified, but BS7671 is not a law. Still competent person schemes expect their members to work to it.

Is he a member of any such scheme? if he is then I may be having words with them.

 

[EmceeArsey]

Thanks ELFImpudence,

You should get a certificate for all work;

Yes, that was my understanding, thank you for confirming.

Horizontally behind skirting is not an acceptable place to run cable; is that what you meant?

Ah, yes, the void behind the skirting board is the same void that the existing (Kitchen only) mains ring passes through (and the gas pipe too). It was by my kitchen installer's design when I had my kitchen stripped down and rebuilt, his electrician issued a satisfactory EICR at that time. Perhaps I should have said purpose built conduit, but from the outside it just looks like a narrow box with a skirting board moulding.

 

[EmceeArsey]

I don't think you will find a definitive answer to that question.

Fair enough. If it is arguable either way and I can get him to issue a minor works cert, I'll be happy with that.

My understating is that BS7671 requires all work to be certified, but BS7671 is not a law. Still competent person schemes expect their members to work to it.

Is he a member of any such scheme?

I believe he is but he didn't show me any documents to that effect. I guess I was foolish not to check from the start. He did come recommended though and we are still in contact. I just wanted to make sure I'm demanding the correct certs before I chase him up. He's trying to make me engage him to do a full EICR survey for £££. I'm not having that; it's not needed so soon after my last one.

 

[securespark]

So, are you saying this guy attached a piece of cable to an unused MCB and ran the cable behind the skirting?

 

[ericmark]

Behind skirting board is not a permitted cable route

more here however skirting trunking

is allowed so it is not easy to say if OK or not, a little common sense is required, idea is in error no one will hit the cable, so if the skirting board is clearly used to hide wires it is OK, but if it looks like any other skirting board it is not, and clearly no electrician will want to admit he broke the rules.

So we have three signature installation certificates, one for design, it seems you did that, and one for installation seems you did some of that, and one for inspecting and testing, so if you presented the electrician with the installation certificate with the bits you have done all filled in and signed for, then it is reasonable to expect him to fill in the bits he did and sign for those.

But Part P approved documents allow for when some work is done by different tradesmen and it says where a third party tester is used the paperwork submitted to the LABC will not be forwarded to the home owner, he will only get the completion certificate as the installation certificate can only be completed by the person doing the work, an electrical installation condition report can be used to show the LABC the work is OK, but although they look very similar, you would not get an installation certificate.

The electrician as said must follow IET regulations as part of his agreement with the scheme operator, so he could not issue an installation certificate under the scheme.

There should be a minor works certificate, however when I had some work done on mothers house through the social services and care and repair, they used a scheme member electrician to do the work, it was to convert a door entry system to being mains powered, the original was an 8 volt AC transformer, this needed changing to a 12 volt DC power supply, they could only find a plug in power supply so replaced the old transformer for a 13 amp socket, and a wallmart power supply.

I tested it and found the RCD did not trip even with 5x the rating, so seemed clear it was connected to wrong bus bar in the consumer unit, I was 99.9% sure it did not comply, so step one was ask for the minor works, at that time, a simple label would have resulted in it complying, but my worry was other items being plugged into the socket, resulting in no door bell, but could not get a minor works certificate in spite of asking both council and contractor direct.

Now if you can't get a certificate from the county council who should police part P, what do you think your chances are? I realised than Part P was a farce, and I have treated it as such ever since.

You can try the lie "I have placed the house on the market and my solicitor says I need the paper work." however I had that with a new front door, with a fensa certificate, and got no luck, however it turned out no enough of the door glazed to require one.

Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.”

and this is your problem, if you had followed all the rules then maybe you could complain, but you didn't.