Is it possible?

[razorback]

...Is it possible for a "handyman" with say, 5 years experience and to be both experienced practically and be knowledgeable about the 17th edition; but i emphasize not a qualified electrician; to become registered with one of the schemes and be accepted?

 

[riveralt]

...Is it possible for a "handyman" with say, 5 years experience and to be both experienced practically and be knowledgeable about the 17th edition; but i emphasize not a qualified electrician; to become registered with one of the schemes and be accepted?

Not according to NAPIT without certified qualifications.

http://www.napit.org.uk/downloads/CP_Electrical_Scheme.pdf

 

[EFLImpudence]

You're not very 'experienced' about life after only five years.

 

[razorback]

You're not very 'experienced' about life after only five years.

Interesting thought; but doesn't work! Joe bloggs can carry out ICS Electrical installation in less than a year and out he/she goes with a wagon and changing CU's and rewiring houses.
5 years doing electrics.... hmmm; i know who i'd choose am afraid....

 

[EngStudent]

You're not very 'experienced' about life after only five years.

Interesting thought; but doesn't work! Joe bloggs can carry out ICS Electrical installation in less than a year and out he/she goes with a wagon and changing CU's and rewiring houses.
5 years doing electrics.... hmmm; i know who i'd choose am afraid....

It all depends (obviously) on competence, but I haven't come across any handymen who test their installation!

 

[razorback]

A handyman with 5 years of electrical installation experience; and lets just say this handyman acquired his knowledge from "shadowing" a retired electrician; and at the same time absorbed the 17th edition; and also built up his portfolio; photographs, diagrams, drawings etc. When this handyman is released into the world of self employment he has PLI up to 5,000,000, and states on his business card... electrical work in accordance with Part P....Anything above and beyond that will obviously need LABC inspection; but why? A certificate presented from a 20 year old with no experience other than his/her 9 month ICS electrical installation course!!! Anybody see where am going with this?

 

[Click4]

A handyman with 5 years of electrical installation experience; and lets just say this handyman acquired his knowledge from "shadowing" a retired electrician; and at the same time absorbed the 17th edition; and also built up his portfolio; photographs, diagrams, drawings etc. When this handyman is released into the world of self employment he has PLI up to 5,000,000, and states on his business card... electrical work in accordance with Part P....Anything above and beyond that will obviously need LABC inspection; but why? A certificate presented from a 20 year old with no experience other than his/her 9 month ICS electrical installation course!!! Anybody see where am going with this?

yep, but its a grey area very oppinionated and controversial and most discussions seem to end up in arguements about who is right and who is wrong.

ideally, the experience you would think would count towards the person doing it longer rather than the newly qualified person.

but in practice the other side of the arguement is the person who has just qualified has studied and been taught the most current regulations and that by passing have proven their knowledge to be of an acceptable standard... whereas the more experienced person may have gaps in their knowledge and some of their knowledge may be through guessing rather than actually knowing.

so there is always 2 sides to the same arguement.

 

[EngStudent]

Razor, I do hope you're not implying that you're the person with 5 years experience, because 3 months ago, you posted this:

In my house as there are in most, the loop system, I would like to replace the ceiling rose with a flush circular light but it only has a terminal block to only L N E. What do I do with the 4 red cables in the middle terminal?

 

[razorback]

Razor, I do hope you're not implying that you're the person with 5 years experience, because 3 months ago, you posted this:

In my house as there are in most, the loop system, I would like to replace the ceiling rose with a flush circular light but it only has a terminal block to only L N E. What do I do with the 4 red cables in the middle terminal?

Of course not. I am actually talking about the son of a qualified but retired electrician. But I found your implication hilarious. I suppose ultimately whats the difference between a portfolio of work - as pointed out above - and a signed off qualification. And dont forget although this gentleman is experienced - that does not necessarily mean he's going to guess. It does actually say that if you can prove an understanding of the 17th edition then that would I thin be accepted. Please correct me if am wrong in that.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

...Is it possible for a "handyman" with say, 5 years experience and to be both experienced practically and be knowledgeable about the 17th edition; but i emphasize not a qualified electrician; to become registered with one of the schemes and be accepted?

Possibly.

Qualifications would be needed, and he'd have to demonstrate a proper understanding of testing.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not according to NAPIT without certified qualifications.

http://www.napit.org.uk/downloads/CP_Electrical_Scheme.pdf[/QUOTE]
Hmm.

How much trust should we have in a document written by someone so ignorant of the regulations that they think that extensions and modifications to circuits in remote garages / buildings incl. workshops are notifiable? Or that ditto in bathrooms and shower rooms are notifiable, with no account taken of Zones?

 

[ericmark]

If I was employing a guy to do electrical work I would interview him then he would have 13 weeks to prove himself. So I could employ a guy with no paper qualifications but from the interview and employment history I know is very able to do the job. Should I make a mistake I have 13 weeks to identify my mistake and I would be watching his work in first few weeks anyway.

However the scheme operators don't have the staff to monitor the work in the same way as an employer so they can't take a chance and watch what is done in first 13 weeks and they have to rely on paper qualifications.

We all know people can pass exams with either not intention of using the knowledge gained or with no understanding of the meaning of the rules learn parrot fashion.

But what are the real alternatives? The scheme operators could set their own exams. "Does a socket supplied with cable to BS 8436 installed and marked to supply a fridge only need to be RCD protected." would test the knowledge of the regulations far better than the C&G 2382 exam which asks silly questions from the appendix which will not effect the safety one little bit. Does it really matter what the BS number is?

However like any exam in time one would still learn all the answers. If during an interview some one did not seem to know his stuff he will not be able to return and re-do the interview until he passes. However candidates cab do that with an exam.

I have known apprentice electricians who for 4 years did nothing else but install cable tray work. That would not really help in knowing how to test and inspect after changing a consumer unit. But 4 years experience. There knowledge was dependent on the college who taught them. And this is judged by them coming away with written qualifications.

I would be first to admit my degree in electronic and electrical engineering taught me nothing about the regulations yet even when house bashing the LABC was far more impressed with my degree than my sons C&G2391. But for a house bashing job the 2391 was far more important. Had the job been to program a PLC then of course my degree would be more valid.

So we must accept that qualifications are the only way to without setting ones own exam to work out some ones knowledge.