A lot less.
70+ years will mean rubber insulated wiring, which had a lifespan of 25 years when new, and by now will be entirely ruined.
Is my earthing or bonding correct?
- Thread starter Whibley
- Start date
70+ years will mean rubber insulated wiring, which had a lifespan of 25 years when new, and by now will be entirely ruined.
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IF the wiring is rubber-insulated, then I would totally agree with you.
However, you are 'making assumptions', since your assertion that the installation is unsafe derived from what had been said about the age of the "fuse box".
I presume that, like me, you are aware of many an installation which for decades (in some cases right up to today) have remained as 'safe' as they have ever been whilst an ancient fuse box remained in service, the wiring of the installation having been updated to PVC at some point in time.
Someone could theoretically rewire in newer PVC while leaving 1950s fuseboxes in place.
In reality this never happens.
Have seen a few where charlatans have replaced short lengths in PVC from the fusebox to concealed junction boxes above to give the illusion of modernity when attempting to sell the property.
Or most recently where perpetrators had replaced all of the light switches with new ones in a feeble attempt to conceal the 1960s wiring.
In reality this never happens.
Have seen a few where charlatans have replaced short lengths in PVC from the fusebox to concealed junction boxes above to give the illusion of modernity when attempting to sell the property.
Or most recently where perpetrators had replaced all of the light switches with new ones in a feeble attempt to conceal the 1960s wiring.
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Indeed - it's almost unthinkable that anyone would do that now, or in recent times (decades).
However, I know of at least two cases in my family in which installations wired in VIR, with 'ancient' (quite probably "1950s") fuseboxes, were re-wired with PVC cable in the 1970s or early 1980s without the fusebox having been upgraded - and with that fusebox (with the new PVC wiring) then remaining in service for many further years (with the installation being 'no less safe' than it ever was). You surely must have seen similar?
I don't doubt that such inexcusable things have sometimes been done - but, as above, there are perfectly reasonable scenarios in which VIR cable was (completely) replaced with PVC many decades ago,but with an ancient fusebox left in service for a long time after the re-wire -and hence often with the installation no less safe than it ever was.
Hmph! Don't say never!
I have seen more than one installation which is virtually all harmonised colours and old fuseboxes and possibly accessories. Not rare in rental properties.
I looked at an investment property, with a viewto buy, during lockdown described as well presented and rewired which still had one of these:
That is not rare and I witnessed it last year at a neighbouring house where an elderly lady passed away,
I stuck my nose in and warned the surveyor about some of the botches I'd seen who in turn did a better survey than would have otherwise been done... Our new neighbour got a cracking deal.
Quite so. As I wrote, I know of at least two examples in my own family and what happened seemed 'very reasonable' in the distant past.
I see nothing necessarily unreasonable about VIR cable having been replaced with PVC in, say, the 1970s, but with an 'old' (maybe 1950s) fusebox ("with nothing wrong with it") being left in service - and if that happened, I do not see why the installation (as a whole0 should 9after the re-wire) be any 'less safe' than it ever was -potentially for a long time thereafter (maybe even 'to today').
As I often find myself feeling the need to say, flameport's strongly cautionary comments very much valid, and deserved to be made - but I feel that (particularly since they were based on assumptions which may not be correct0 those comments should not have been written such that they are likely to be regarded by many readers as 'authoritative' / 'gospel' assertions.
I see far too many post by Flameport written 'as fact' which are so far from correct that someone coming in for advice may know just one detail proving Flameport wrong and give a wide berth, they could feasibly come here with exactly this situation:
and see this:
and knowing the staement of fact is a pile of bovine excretia swipes left to wait for someone who knows what they (and enquirer) know what they are talking about.
Sorry, but I must disagree, it was done and done quite frequently, where old VIR was ripped out and replaced, reusing old fuseboxes, and sometime even the original accessories.
Exactly. That's what I so often point out (in his eyesight), and it rather saddens me.
He is a very knowledgeable (and probably equally skilled/experienced) person with some great communications skills, and clearly has a very laudable desire to educate people - and, as a result, is undoubtedly regarded by many as a provider of authoritative and totally correct information.
However, as we both observe he does have a tendency to assert, as 'fact', things which are far less straightforward or 'clear-cut' than he implies, and which are often his personal views / opinions (or 'interpretations'), rather than actual facts (or requirements of regulations etc.).
I regard that as a pity, particularly since it would be so easy for him to word his (often very important') messages in a more 'honest' fashion. However, since I've been saying this for a pretty long time without him having noticeably changed, I fear that I cannot hold my breath.
I have recently seen two installations that were rewired with new PVC but had retained the ancient fuse boards
Indeed. As we've seen, several of us have seen instances of that (without even being electricians) particularly when the re-wire happened a very long time ago.
Flameport seems to be the only one (of those who have commented) who regards that as something which "In reality never happens."
Money in short supply, VIR falling apart, accesories/fuseboards relatively expensive, and/or the owner simply wanting to maintain the original look of the place - replace the VIR with modern PVC.
Quite so - but not necessarily even that in the fairly distant past. Back in, say,the 1970s, there was very probably "nothing particularly wrong" with fusebox or accessories - so I would say that it would have been perfectly reasonable (and probably quite common) for VIR cable to be replaced with PCV without any of the rest of the iunstallation being 'updated'.
As I just wrote, of those of us who have commented, Flameport seems to be the only one who feels that such "never happened" (other than in the hands of "charlatans").
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