Is the government stupid or are they being ingenious

[SirGalahad]

Ah. but, if it were 70%, it's a winner, isn't it?

You can't make policies on an "if"- there needs to be hard data. If you want to take the position of this is war time medicine then go for it - but be up front with it - don't try to slide it in via the backdoor through updated guidance.

The 70% - how long would we know it lasts at 70%? Does taking a single dose mean you get to efficacy of 70% for a reduced period of time meaning you need a top up anyway say 6 months down the line. So we are then back at the start.

 

[SirGalahad]

The CIA used the cover of vaccination program to find OBL. Now in Pakistan people have become so untrusting of these programs that once eradicated diseases like polio and TB are on the rise.

It's playing with fire changing the dosage and regimen. That's why the are trying to slide it through the backdoor via updated guidance - it doesn't create trust.

Now even you can conede that Filly - why give oxygen to the anti-vaxxers.

Btw in these calculations we assumed the general populace would be willing to take the vaccine - you don't think mixing and matching will put a section off?

 

[fillyboy]

You can't make policies on an "if"- there needs to be hard data. If you want to take the position of this is war time medicine then go for it - but be up front with it - don't try to slide it in via the backdoor through updated guidance.

The 70% - how long would we know it lasts at 70%? Does taking a single dose mean you get to efficacy of 70% for a reduced period of time meaning you need a top up anyway say 6 months down the line. So we are then back at the start.

Fair comment, but it is a war really isn't it?

 

[fillyboy]

Now even you can conede that Filly - why give oxygen to the anti-vaxxers.

Btw in these calculations we assumed the general populace would be willing to take the vaccine - you don't think mixing and matching will put a section off?

No.

 

[SirGalahad]

Fair comment, but it is a war really isn't it?

If it is a war and we want to treat it like that - then we should have not issue of being told that and having strict lockdowns.

It's not enough saying we are at war, we need to be on a war footing and all that entails.

So far this half in, half out policies of semi lockdowns and tiers is sending mixed messages.

Boris wants to seen as a Churchillesque figure - if he was alive now -how would you think he would react?

 

[Notch7]

Btw in these calculations we assumed the general populace would be willing to take the vaccine - you don't think mixing and matching will put a section off

Support for the vaccine is quite low in some European countries, France for example I saw figures of 40% not sure if they would have it.

The UK government announced the release of the vaccine, but zero release of data.....why didn't they release it at the same time, to allow scrutiny otherwise people think there's something to hide

 

[sxturbo]

Ah. but, if it were 70%, it's a winner, isn't it?

The Pfizer is only 52% after one shot.

The Oxford I can't really find a distinguished answer, there appears to be a lot of figures thrown around. However Oxford do advise that a 2nd shot can be done upto 12 weeks after the first with no adverse affects.

However the efficacy of the Oxford is less than the Pfizer.

After 2 shots of the Oxford efficacy is only between 62 + 70%,

The data for the Oxford vaccine isn't 100% clear from what I can see skimming the internet.

Maybe sir Galahad can interject on this one, he seems to have a better understanding of things.

As it stands I'd rather have the Pfizer if I can, but I think this will only be given to the most vulnerable, with everyone else being given the Oxford.

 

[fillyboy]

Boris wants to seen as a Churchillesque figure - if he was alive now -how would you think he would react?

He'd pour himself a drink and light a cigar.

 

[SirGalahad]

The Pfizer is only 52% after one shot.

The Oxford I can't really find a distinguished answer, there appears to be a lot of figures thrown around. However Oxford do advise that a 2nd shot can be done upto 12 weeks after the first with no adverse affects.

However the efficacy of the Oxford is less than the Pfizer.

After 2 shots of the Oxford efficacy is only between 62 + 70%,

The data for the Oxford vaccine isn't 100% clear from what I can see skimming the internet.

Maybe sir Galahad can interject on this one, he seems to have a better understanding of things.

As it stands I'd rather have the Pfizer if I can, but I think this will only be given to the most vulnerable, with everyone else being given the Oxford.

The issue many scientists have with the AZ vaccine is the way they conducted the trial. The media show its efficacy at between 62-90 - that is incorrect. Its efficacy in the majority of the trial was 62% - that's what you should base any analysis on.

 

[SirGalahad]

He'd pour himself a drink and light a cigar.

He would write a fantastic speech and rally the country and lead and not be lead by events.

 

[fillyboy]

Support for the vaccine is quite low in some European countries, France for example I saw figures of 40% not sure if they would have it.

I thought I read similar figures for here, which surprised me, I pretty much assumed the anti vax percentage would be 5% or lower.

 

[Charlie George]

The issue many scientists have with the AZ vaccine is the way they conducted the trial. The media show its efficacy at between 62-90 - that is incorrect. Its efficacy in the majority of the trial was 62% - that's what you should base any analysis on.

But the trials were not the same,AZ tested for asymptomatic cases weekly but Pfizer only reported cases with symptoms,it is all up in the air and nobody knows for sure the best way forward.
The Pfizer vaccine may well be the best for now,but we can't afford to wait for small deliveries weekly,and this is a global issue.

 

[Charlie George]

Also nobody from the AZ trial was hospitalised by covid,so it looks like it will reduce strain on hospitals. Another thing against the AZ vaccine could be because it will be provided at cost price, about 80% cheaper than rivals,and also can be made in much larger quantities,it may find itself being discredited by them ?

 

[JohnD]

I thought I read similar figures for here, which surprised me, I pretty much assumed the anti vax percentage would be 5% or lower.

All the more for the rest of us.

 

[SirGalahad]

But the trials were not the same,AZ tested for asymptomatic cases weekly but Pfizer only reported cases with symptoms,it is all up in the air and nobody knows for sure the best way forward.
The Pfizer vaccine may well be the best for now,but we can't afford to wait for small deliveries weekly,and this is a global issue.

They also only did that half dose regimen on no one older than 55.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4777