Is there a cheaper alternative to Hammerglass?

[SenileGit]

Does anybody know if there is a cheaper alternative to sealed double glazed units with Hammerglass, using some other brand/form of polycarbonate (presumably) that is completely burglar proof?
I asked for a quote from a U.K. company recently, and it was over £1,000 for one approx. six feet by four feet window unit. Way more than I can afford. (The alternative is to use a retractable grille, but an unbreakable window is a much better option, in my opinion.)

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Acrylic is bulletproof at the right thickness (over 25mm I think) but that will be just as if not more pricey I expect. ATL in Weymouth are a reputable supplier. I think they do glass too, if you do pursue them speak to Kevin if he's available, he will certainly give you some honest advice.

 

[JohnD]

That's quite a large unit. I had a laminated one made and fitted, it was several hundred pounds and very heavy, so he brought his son in for half a day to help. I used my local independent window and plastic door repairman. There is bound to be one local to you, there is constant demand because plastic doors and windows are so troublesome.

Is this a large window company you approached?

 

[Notch7]

Does anybody know if there is a cheaper alternative to sealed double glazed units with Hammerglass, using some other brand/form of polycarbonate (presumably) that is completely burglar proof?
I asked for a quote from a U.K. company recently, and it was over £1,000 for one approx. six feet by four feet window unit. Way more than I can afford. (The alternative is to use a retractable grille, but an unbreakable window is a much better option, in my opinion.)

you can’t break through 6.4mm laminated glass easily

why do you need an ”unbreakable window”? I ask because security is only as good as the weakest link - I’ve known burglars take out a complete upvc window - it only takes cutting through say 6 fixing screws - 10 mins work with a hacksaw blade

 

[ronniecabers]

at 6ft x 4ft I wouldn't use 6.4 lami, the centre of that is a lot weaker than you think , thats only two pieces of 3mm glass with a 0.4 interlayer., maybe a 17.8 Tgh/Lami glass ( toughened on side of the laminate ). This is used in a lot of the ' frameless ' Balustrades you see

The main question is , as Notch asked , why unbreakable? and whats th eframe location and material , agina as Notch states the glass may not be the weakest point.

 

[SenileGit]

The frame is uPVC. Yes, the glass may not be the weakest point, in my case I think it is. It's to prevent burglary. It was the only UK seller of Hammerglass (I think) that I approached, I can't remember the name, you can enter window dimensions on their website and then their website shows you a quote.
Sure, a burglar may use a hacksaw to cut an entire window frame out of the brickwork, I doubt very much that 99.9% of burglaries happen like that - I just want unbreakable windows, so that if a burglar tries to break the glass, they will quickly realise it isn't possible, and hopefully give up.
I have cheap window vibration alarms on all the downstairs windows, so they would set off the alarm as soon as they tried to break the window. I imagine that since they couldn't then break the glass and disarm the alarm (which is incredibly loud, and the window itself acts as a loudspeaker, and you can hear it two or three doors down either side of my house) they wouldn't want to stand around waiting, in case either somebody in my house, or a neighbour, had noticed them (due to the alarm) and called the police.
I have many other sized windows that I would also be buying the same polycarbonate/whatever for, that was just the largest one I have, so that I could see just how expensive Hammerglass was. It is ridiculously expensive, and I can't understand why - they are massively reducing their potential market by pricing it so high. It isn't exactly rocket science to make, I presume.

 

[ronniecabers]

I think you are over specifying personally
I understand the fear of burglary but even something as simple as a 6.8 lami ( rather than the 6.4 ) would act as a deferent, if it didn't then why would building regs specify it in the New Document Q for all doors and vulnerable windows. It would certainly create a fair bit of noise trying to get through 6.8 lami and it would keep the thermal properties of the frame
The other.aspect to consider is what happens in an emergency eg fire where you can't exit the doorways and maybe breaking the glass is the only option.

As goes the price, its a very specific product and may not be rocket science but certainly has been well developed ( using nano technologies) , that isn't cheap. I very much suspect Hammerglass is only required in very specific circumstances

 

[SenileGit]

Re in an emergency - with Hammerglass, you don't need to use your window locks, since a burglar can't break the window to turn the window handle, so you open the window and climb out.
I will investigate 6.8 lami then. I am also considering retractable security grilles instead - I have sliding doors in the dining room, onto the patio, and if I had retractable security grilles, I can leave the doors open and leave the grilles locked shut, allowing air through in the summer, without having to worry about somebody sneaking in.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Have you been burgled recently or something?

 

[SenileGit]

I've never been burgled. I'm also one of those crazy people who leaves several lights on at night (all night long) in my house, 3W bulbs. No doubt some people think that is a terrible thing to do. It may be one of the reasons I've never been burgled. I want to live in a house that nobody can break into. There are nutters out there who will happily throw a brick through your window and just climb in and murder you - it happens. Most people have a head in the sand attitude about burglary and crime in general, and think that "Well it hasn't happened to me, therefore it CAN'T happen." This is obviously not true.
I do wonder why there isn't a cheaper alternative to Hammerglass - it doesn't have to be more than 20% as good as Hammerglass to stop most burglaries. Hammerglass is insanely expensive.

 

[JohnD]

We don't know what your risk profile is.

Round my way, most domestic robberies are crack heads jumping over a fence to loot a shed or lobbing a brick through a window to grab what's handy. One large house was next to a hostel, and an attempt was made to force the back door while the occupant was regularly working away.

Where Bernard lives, highly skilled professionals use electronic equipment to disable intruder alarms before forcing entry.

Are you known to be a member of a gun club, with weapons stored on the premises? Or do you have gold jewelry that members of your family publicly display at weddings? Do you boast of your coin collection? Do you frequently travel on business leaving the house unoccupied for weeks at a time? Do you have expensive cars with the keys just inside the front door?

Do you brag online of your wealth and give clues of the village where you live and your lengthy visits to the pub?

 

[SenileGit]

JohnD, I have to say I find your line of questioning to be bizarre. I would like NONE of the above possibilities to happen to me. If somebody disabled my burglar alarm, surrely having Hammerglass and high quality uPVC doors with Hammerglass would prevent them from getting in regardless. It's the "forcing entry" part that I'm trying to stop, by either changing the glass in my windows, or adding retractable security grilles.
You do realise that hundreds of thousands of houses are burgled every year in the U.K.? That it isn't an incredibly rare event? You did mention "lobbing a brick through a window", which is exactly why I made my first post!
I don't see what is wrong with wanting to make my house completely secure - I am retired and will (if I'm lucky to live that long) become frailer and weaker with time, and I don't want to live with the fear that somebody (possibly multiple people) will break into my house when I'm asleep, or at any other time. I thought this was a DIY forum, I was expecting practical solutions to DIY problems - i.e. how to increase home security, not strange questions about my lifestyle and possessions.
EVERYBODY has an interest in reducing the risk of burglary at their property, it just seems that many people think that by talking about the problem, it somehow makes it more likely to happen. I've even had friends say words to this effect to me. They think that if they ignore it, it won't happen to them.
My risk profile is irrelevant, I just want to be as safe as possible in my own home. I would have thought that was a perfectly normal concern.

 

[JohnD]

Your risk profile gives a clue what sort of attack you are likely to get.

I can easily fend off my local villains, but Bernard would find his harder.

Doors, windows and locks can make an intrusion slower and more effort, but not prevent it. For example I have metal windows, laminated glass, solid doors (not plastic), 5-lever BS deadlocks and other precautions, because I used to travel on business a lot, but my risk profile has reduced for other reasons.

I don't actually want to know your details, but they are relevant to your precautions. I gave examples of people who make themselves attractive targets more likely to attract a more competent attack.

 

[Lower]

Can you get double glazing with one pane being georgian wired?

 

[ronniecabers]

Can you get double glazing with one pane being georgian wired?

You could but it would look horrible!