Is there some fearmongering going on here?

[veedee]

Victorian house is undergoing development including new extension, loft conversion, full rewire

However, the electricians price per point is too steep for my budget.

Subsequently, I am attempting to keep the points to a minimum. However after the sparky finishes his 2nd fix, I plan to add more points myself (e.g. extend ring circuit, change pendant for downlights etc)

What I wanted to know whether there are any potential problems if I was to undertake the extra work? I am referring to things like obtaining certificates etc?

The head builder for my project (who happens to be mates with the electrician) has been trying to discourage me from doing this work. He cites that I would have some sort of certificate issue

Is there any truth to this?

 

[crystal ball]

Do you have calibrated test kit?

 

[FrodoOne]

Victorian house is undergoing development including new extension, loft conversion, full rewire

Depending on how long ago any "wiring" was done and how it was carried out, this could be "costly".
If it was "originally" done in conduit, it could be relatively easy - and cheaper.

Why do you wish to "extend any ring circuit" - or even install ONE ?
See

Radial circuits are a much better idea (and used everywhere else in the world, outside the UK) if you are undertaking such a project.

That which you should install are several "radial" circuits, each "protected" by individual RCBOs, (not just one or two RCDs and several MCBs) so that if there is a "fault" in future, the disconnection of the "fault" will be limited to that one Radial circuit and not (virtually) the whole house "Ring".
You should install "Radial" circuits so that the Kitchen is supplied via at least two such 20 A circuits and it is a good idea that most other rooms, where there are more than two "pairs of" socket-outlets, be supplied via two separate "Radial" circuits.

RCBOs should also be installed on UK "Lighting" circuits, even although this is not (yet) required by UK regulations.

Yes. This will cost a little bit more than a "basic" Ring.
However, any future "fault" will be much easier to locate and cause much less "inconvenience".

 

[conny]

I would imagine if the electrician signed off his work, (stating number of lights, outlets etc), then you add your own, you may have some awkward questions to answer later if you come to sell the house or a fault occurs in the system. Are you 'competent' to install extra sockets/extend circuits? More importantly, are you qualified to correctly test the whole of your work, and indeed the whole system, especially if something goes wrong?
It's all very well trying to keep costs down but not at the expense of possible safety/rule 'bending'-breaking.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

All electrical work must be designed and installed in a competent fashion. Some electrical work has to be notified to Building Control as well as being installed competently- CU replacement, new circuit(s) and works in a Special Location are the main ones.
So, your electrician installs, tests and certifies a new radial or RFC with 3 sockets on it. This is notifiable work.
You then add another 12 sockets to that radial/RFC. This is not notifiable work but still has to be done properly (safe zones, correctly rated cabling, insulation and circuit resistance testing) and documented. Testing with a standard multimeter is not good enough.

 

[EFLImpudence]

radial or RFC

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Oh yeah, I keep doing that bit of tautology. Guaranteed if I just put RFC someone would pop up and say 'what about radials?'

 

[veedee]

Depending on how long ago any "wiring" was done and how it was carried out, this could be "costly".
If it was "originally" done in conduit, it could be relatively easy - and cheaper.

Why do you wish to "extend any ring circuit" - or even install ONE ?
See

Radial circuits are a much better idea (and used everywhere else in the world, outside the UK) if you are undertaking such a project.

That which you should install are several "radial" circuits, each "protected" by individual RCBOs, (not just one or two RCDs and several MCBs) so that if there is a "fault" in future, the disconnection of the "fault" will be limited to that one Radial circuit and not (virtually) the whole house "Ring".
You should install "Radial" circuits so that the Kitchen is supplied via at least two such 20 A circuits and it is a good idea that most other rooms, where there are more than two "pairs of" socket-outlets, be supplied via two separate "Radial" circuits.

RCBOs should also be installed on UK "Lighting" circuits, even although this is not (yet) required by UK regulations.

Yes. This will cost a little bit more than a "basic" Ring.
However, any future "fault" will be much easier to locate and cause much less "inconvenience".

The install is not my choice.. The sparky likes to do things his way and that includes ring circuits

The lights, sockets and cooker will be wired up next in the kitchen..

So a radial circuit is preferred there? Thanks for the JW link, I know that he is an advocate of radials over ring circuits

I would imagine if the electrician signed off his work, (stating number of lights, outlets etc), then you add your own, you may have some awkward questions to answer later if you come to sell the house or a fault occurs in the system. Are you 'competent' to install extra sockets/extend circuits? More importantly, are you qualified to correctly test the whole of your work, and indeed the whole system, especially if something goes wrong?
It's all very well trying to keep costs down but not at the expense of possible safety/rule 'bending'-breaking.

I am very comfortable adding additional socket/ lights to a circuit

I do not have the means to test my work. I plan on investing in the equipment to do this

All electrical work must be designed and installed in a competent fashion. Some electrical work has to be notified to Building Control as well as being installed competently- CU replacement, new circuit(s) and works in a Special Location are the main ones.
So, your electrician installs, tests and certifies a new radial or RFC with 3 sockets on it. This is notifiable work.
You then add another 12 sockets to that radial/RFC. This is not notifiable work but still has to be done properly (safe zones, correctly rated cabling, insulation and circuit resistance testing) and documented. Testing with a standard multimeter is not good enough.

Am I right in saying that the electrician self certifies their work which negates the need to notify building control?

Also after the electrician issues the certificate for his work.. Am I perfectly within my right to add to the circuits without any fear or issues down the line? e.g.

1. difficulty selling the place

2. Having to explain why there are additional circuits?

Also if I got the correct test equipment am I allowed to note down the results seeing as I am an unqualified electrician? Will this hold any weight?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

If your electrician is a member of one of the schemes that allows them to self-notify then correct, they'll give you a certificate (detailing circuits, cables, install methods, and test results) and a few weeks later you'll get a letter from Building Control telling you the work has been notified.

Yes you can add fittings, sockets, switches etc as long as you do it properly (cable size, cable type, safe zones, derating as required for installation method etc). Document it all.

Unlikely you'll get the appropriate test gear cheap enough to make it worth the effort but if you do, as long as you understand what you're testing and how you're testing it then record it all on the appropriate form and you should be ok.

Low odds any prospective purchaser or conveyancer will do much more than glance at the paperwork, as long as you do the job right you'll be fine. If you get something major wrong and injury or death results from it then your documentation may save you. Or may not....

 

[veedee]

@oldbutnotdead thank you very much.

 

[flameport]

He cites that I would have some sort of certificate issue
Is there any truth to this?

Certificates are required for all electrical work regardless of who installed it.
They are usually only requested when selling a property, or after something has gone wrong where someone was injured/killed or property was damaged as a result of an electrical installation.

There isn't any restriction on who can do electrical work, other than it must be safe.

The fact the builder now knows you intend to have a small number of items installed now and you will add more yourself later won't have helped at all.
Installing the additional items yourself and buying your own test equipment to test them with isn't likely to save anything, even a basic set of electric test equipment will be £600+, and that assumes you know how to use it and what the results mean.

 

[ericmark]

The Welsh and English laws are diffrent as to notifying work, but you can with both do DIY work, however in Wales it costs £100 plus vat to notify work so can cost more than using a scheme member electrician.

There is nothing to stop anyone filling in a minor works or installion certificate, in fact it is a good check list to ensure you have not missed anything, and free down load from IET web site.

I would down load forms, then say how you feel about filling them in.

 

[ericmark]

When is came to doing mothers house, it was going to cost £600 per week for her stay in a care home, so speed was important, we were not sure if the house would be used by mother, rented out, or sold, so wanted it in a state where it could be rented.

So rewire was all sockets on a ring final, so I could add spurs latter if required, and the basic required to rent the home.

As it happened we were able to live in the house some years, so small additions done, also some bits had been done before the rewired, these were left as they were, so I had three installation certificates, two compliance certificates and a completion certificate to cover the work.

When I came to sell I could not find them, so applied for replacements, only to be told it would take 4 months and no idea as to cost, solicitor said we could take out an insurance to cover, but found the paperwork in the end. However it pointed out the paperwork is no more than a tax as far as the LABC goes.

This house given a lovely set of certificates, I was impressed, seems most house already with RCD protection, but when we moved in, found the paperwork only covered 4 of the 14 rooms in the house.

And this is the problem, mothers house I knew which bit of paperwork covered what, but new owners don't, there is no paperwork for removing anything, so one reads it with really no idea what covers what, and what has been redone.

The LABC often use the EICR (electrical installation condition report) to decide if to issue a completion certificate, they should commission the EICR and tell the inspector doing the report they want to know about any non compliance, only the person who is in control of the work can issue an installation certificate, so if you plan, wire, and inspect and test, then you sign the certificate, you can get three signature versions, but the LABC will not issue an installation certificate, I am not sure in England where you are allowed to use third party inspectors, but there are very few people who can sign as a third party inspector.

The hassle of getting the certificates to rent out the house, means even if mother was not needing care, to DIY is a real pain, I did it for her wet room, and notified the LABC, who at first did not want me to sign the installation certificate, the said the C&G 2391 was not good enough, I pointed out also had a degree, and they then allowed me to sign my own installation certificate, however this was Flintshire, my son working in Liverpool and Chester had no problems getting the LABC inspector to accept his signature also has a C&G 2391.

So it does depend on your LABC inspector, he can do as he wants, I was forced to fit a bathroom extractor fan even when the rules said with opening window not required, he said since on ground floor some one could walk past the window.