Just how safe are EVs?

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There's been some misunderstanding of the 3 core points I'm wanting to make, so to be clear:

-There's prejudice, confirmation bias and uninformed guesswork on the part of people who think that EV's are a better transport solution or a worse transport solution than ICE vehicles

-UK mainstream media reporting about EV's is currently (excuse the pun) often poorly researched, and biased against EV adoption

-Credible scientific research has been undertaken about EV battery risk and safety, battery life, and EV environmental impact, with comparisons made with ICE vehicles, so if you really want the facts, then go and have a look at it. It is, of course limited, not perfect, and based on a number of stated assumptions.
 
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Sounds like anything you like is called scientific methods, and anything you don't like is called click baiting zealotry. This is not a good way to convince people of your point of view.

Conventional wisdom states: there is no smoke without fire. EV's are smoking and there is no way to hide it. As an energy store, lithium based technology is both not mature and not safe. This is why it is banned in postal services in many countries. There is no such issues with other battery types. When the "scientific" community is willing to put their money where their mouth is, by compensating all victims of battery fires, their perspectives may have some value. As it is, the postman trumps the scientist any day of the week.

What is your reason for defending EV? Are you sitting atop a pile of lithium cells that are ready to blow any minute? Even if we all give you good wishes and agree lithium is safe, it still won't modify the probability of one of the cells starting a non-ret@rd-able catastrophic chain-reaction.
Hmmm, let's go through this...

Are you seriously suggesting that you don't know the difference between a YouTube video and peer reviewed published scientific research?

I'm not quite sure what you think the point of view I'm trying to get you to agree with is.
I'm happy for you to believe what you like, but if you're basing it on YouTube videos and poorly written sensationalism, then I might be inclined to point out that more reliable information is available (see my 3 core points)...
I agree absolutely that there is a fire risk with EV batteries, and wonder if you'd agree there's a fire risk with petrol tanks? (Conventional wisdom states there's no smoke without fire...)

I made it very clear why I might be inclined to defend EV's earlier in this thread, but I am making a determined effort to avoid being partisan - apologies if I have failed in this regard.
 
I agree absolutely that there is a fire risk with EV batteries, and wonder if you'd agree there's a fire risk with petrol tanks? (Conventional wisdom states there's no smoke without fire...)
I don't really want to get involved in a lengthy discussion, largely because at my age I don't really give a toss, but there is a distinction to be made here concerning vehicular fire risk.
Whilst it is true that petroleum spirit is highly flammable it does require a source of ignition, whereas EV batteries appear to possess an ability to spontaneously ignite & having done so are, according to informed sources such as the fire service, very difficult to extinguish.
 
I don't really want to get involved in a lengthy discussion, largely because at my age I don't really give a toss, but there is a distinction to be made here concerning vehicular fire risk.
Whilst it is true that petroleum spirit is highly flammable it does require a source of ignition, whereas EV batteries appear to possess an ability to spontaneously ignite & having done so are, according to informed sources such as the fire service, very difficult to extinguish.
Yes, there are lots of distinctions to be made...
 
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Are you seriously suggesting that you don't know the difference between a YouTube video and peer reviewed published scientific research?
I believe the postal service more than the tainted peer reviewed research. If the postal service says it is not safe, then it is not safe. Having additional evidence from youtube videos simply reinforces the correct stance of the postal service.
 
I am happier to risk petrol than lithium.
Carry on then.

Buying a battery electric vehicle is not compulsory and never will be.
Neither is buying anything else containing a battery.

However getting busted up over a few random videos of a phone on fire is both illogical and entirely unrepresentative of phones or batteries in general.
1.5 billion mobiles phones are sold every year. Billions more already in use everywhere. The vast majority of them do not set on fire.
 
Interesting problem, so bike should be charged outside for safety, and clearly not in a wooden shed which could go on fire, but is a metal shed safe with a TN-C-S supply? I know charger is class II, but should one bond the shed when fitting a socket in it?


Charge them where they present the least risk to you and yours, Eric.

Not in your house (and absolutely not while you sleep).
Not blocking a means of escape.

Wooden shed or metal shed: matters not. Once the batteries go up, there's little to stop them.
Possessions can be replaced.
 
There are no youtube videos of petrol spontaneously combust from someone's pocket. I am happier to risk petrol than lithium.
There were at one time, it seems gas lighters were exploding in welders pockets, when sparks hit the plastic containers, and there was a big campaign to stop people using welding sets and burning gear from carrying plastic lighters.

I remember going to a lecture in the 70's about using north sea gas to power cars, it seems it worked OK, but it needs to be kept cold, and in an accident the insulation could get damaged, so the safety valve would release gas, which could then burn, so they were not marketed as being unsafe.

Today we have crash tests, if over a set amount of cars are made, I would hope the electric cars can pass the crash test?

In all my life very few cars have had any problem while parked, I know of two, both on the Falklands, both Landrovers, one the starter motor cranked the car into a ditch, the other went on fire, of all the Landrovers there, it happened to be the fire engine. Seen loads of car fires, but only two when the car was parked. The other fire was in the Liverpool car park. That one every one knows about as so many cars burnt as a result.

The
resent fire, it says there were electric cars, but as yet it has not said fire caused by electric cars.

I have three concerns with electric cars.
1) TN-C-S supplies with out an effective way to disconnect the car with loss of PEN.
2) Batteries going on fire.
3) Trip hazard with charging cables.
The latter does seem to be a big problem, I have many times found coils of cable left where likely to trip me up. Yes no different to the pipe to fill a tank, but they are left unattended for an extended time.

In ones drive for loss of PEN to cause a danger is remote, as to actually happen while your touching it is very unlikely. On the street it is a different situation, many more people are passing the car, however in the main a charge point on ones drive will have auto disconnection with loss of PEN, it is the so called granny leads used to charge on the street which are far more likely not to have loss of PEN detection.

OK I was watching the train today 1691599790072.png and yes that seems a lot of smoke, but to be fair mainly down to having to import poor quality coal as Welsh mines have closed, OK heritage trains in total produce very little CO2, but we are still running diesel trains on the commercial lines, should not we do trains first?

Diesel trains don't have to pass any exhaust emissions test before being used, no addblue or any other devices to reduce particular emissions, so it is clear whole idea is to get the general public to spend money, and has nothing to do with saving the planet.

So it is down to risk assessment, and is the risk of fire, tripping, or electrocution worth it to go electric?
 
I know they happen, but I've never seen any electric car on fire, or having been on fire.

Seen lots of petrol and diesel cars that have.
 
Just a couple of points:

Yes, EVs have to do all the same crash tests as any other sort of car.

In addition, those sold in the EU, have to comply with ECE Reg 100, which contains a number of pretty savage tests that the car (and battery pack) must undergo. These include frontal an side impact crashes, overcharging, water ingress, mechanical shock, high and low temperatures, short circuit and standing over a tray of burning petrol for several minutes.

There are a number of Li-ion chemistries, some of which are more volatile than others. Not all cars use the same battery chemistry, even though that means slightly reduced range.

Latest on the Freemantle Highway, is that it is now in port in the Netherlands and the full investigation can begin. I've seen reports that none of the EVs on board were damaged (they were two decks below the fire), but I await confirmation of that.
 
I don't know the details of lithium fires etc, but I do feel that currently we are not ready for this.
Mainly due to the wastage of energy, and unregulated lithium mining.

I would be happy to read proof that a car such as my low emission, Ford Focus Eco Zetec (or something like that) is more damaging to the environment than a battery car that needs charging from a national grid that still uses huge amounts of gas, and needs batteries that are being ripped out of the ground causing loads of pollution.

I honestly think it makes sense in big cities to push for electric, as it is only in urban areas where pollution is a problem. But much of that pollution is older vehicles anyway. If somebody is driving long distances up and down the M6 every day, for example, I really don't think the emissions problem is the big issue.
 
I believe the postal service more than the tainted peer reviewed research. If the postal service says it is not safe, then it is not safe. Having additional evidence from youtube videos simply reinforces the correct stance of the postal service.

Royal Mail are fine with li-ion batteries as long as they are within their devices or original packaging. It's loose ones that they don't much like (and that includes lead-acid, by the way).

 
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