knocking/drumming sound at motorway speeds

[Burnerman]

Well, if the car was mine, I'd put it up on jacks, start up and put it into gear to see if we could get any nearer the trouble.
Careful though!
The differential will prevent the car flying away if you only lift one side but again, canny how you go.
John

 

[madder]

Yeah ok. I've only got the standard Jack here myself and I wouldn't really know much about these types of issues despite the fact that I am always very willing to give this stuff a try. Might have to just leave it in for inspection and see what they tell me it needs in the breakers. I will make it known to them that if it is going to be more than the cars value that I'd likely decline the repairs. That way they should give me their best price. Thanks John

 

[madder]

Going to try to get a look at that wheels today. Would it be better if I remove the wheel to take a look? And what exactly should I be looking for if its a bearing? Thanks.

 

[Burnerman]

Good morning!
Jack the suspect side up, handbrake on, car in neutral....spin the wheel by hand, check for rim buckles on outer and inner edges. Look for bulges on the tyre walls, and also out of round treads.
Wheel straight ahead......grasp at 12 and 6 o'clock and rock the wheel. This will show up severe bearing wear if there's any play.
Grasp at 9 and 3 o'clock and do the same. This shows up any play in the steering joints.
Wheel off.....grasp the brake caliper and see if you can move it. Look for pad friction material on both pads.
Look for broken spring coils at the same time.
Look at the CV joint rubber boots as the driveshaft enters the hub. Feel through the rubber to the joint as you turn the wheel. All should be smooth. Bumping or lumpy feeling here shows trouble.
Get a lever, and place it between the bottom swivel joint and the hub. Move the lever and see if there's any up and down movement there.
Now repeat, t'other side
John

 

[madder]

John, you're a legend and a Godsend! I'm hoping to get a chance to do that today. But it will be done today hopefully or at least before the end of the weekend. It'd be nice to rule out bearings, and any other pricey issues. When it's checked, I'll report back.
Funny thing, the startup noise(alternator belt slip) hasn't happened again since that one day, Tuesday I think it was?

 

[Burnerman]

I can't remember the belt layout of the Carina particularly, but the alternator belt will shriek if its particularly slack or you are starting up with an electrical load on i.e HRW, lights on etc.
The PAS belt howls if you've parked up on full lock....which is one of the reasons PAS systems are becoming electrical of late.
I forgot to add on the last post, check the wishbone inner rubber joints - thats the bottom wishbone that goes up and down with the suspension.....use a lever for this.
Be lucky!
John

 

[madder]

Ok John. About the alternator belt, some cold mornings/nights, I do get a brief shriek which I presumed was the belt and that it was a reaction to the cold. It doesn't happen when the car is warm, and the shriek only lasts a couple of seconds after startup. And it isn't every day either. Maybe I just need to tighten it up a bit.

 

[madder]

Ok, so I had some time today to jack the car up and check the front wheel on the driver side. I shook it and it really didn't seem to be moving more than the slightest little bit?
I removed the wheel to inspect and while it is hard to say for sure, there did seem to be very very slight uneven type look on the inside of the tyre. Not very noticeable but it may have been very slightly swollen, and only in a tiny area.
I took some pictures with my phone while the wheel was off, but I don't know exactly what I was photographing as my limted knowledge of cars and their parts doesn't cover much in that area of the car. They might show something obvious to someone, but they look like nothing to me?
Anyway, I am going to take the car out for a 30 minute drive in a couple of hours. It has the spare wheel on it now, which looks the same size(thankfully) as they one I removed. The tyre is new as I replaced it about 3 months ago, when replacing my back tyre passenger side.
I guess I can rule out front tyre drivers side if the noise is still there. I'll tune in later to confirm. Wish me luck!
Meantime if there is anything in the pics let me know!

 

[madder]

Just back from my drive. I don't really now. The noise seems to be there still. Even at very slow speeds. Could it be just the sound of things turning. It gathers pace with acceleration. One thing I did test a bit harder than before was to drive on the motorway at 75MPH. The noise was still there obviously, and got a little louder and faster with acceleration, but it really doesn't seem to be as bad as it was before? The vibration in the wheel seems very gentle and could be more to do with the road quality?
The breakers are going to take a look as soon as I get it in to them but I just don't know. I guess it could be one of the other wheels that I haven't checked yet? I am thinking that the sound was less prominent also when I put the car into neutral and coasting. I don't know if this helps at all?

 

[madder]

Just as I posted previously in this thread, I recorded audio of the car driving, this time with the new wheel on front drivers side. Noise is still there. It seems softer, but also clearer. Car is driving from around 20mph up to maybe 40mph this time. Still likely to be a bearing or is there anything else jumping out?

 

[Mursal]

If its a speed dependent noise, changing with speed, probably wheel bearing, Have you any movement in the top of the wheel when you pull outwards/push inwards?
Regardless, its wheel bearing or CV joint. But the CV joint on the drive-shaft to that wheel would usually rattle in a sharp turn?

Bearing I don't think is that easy to do, some of the others will probably know more.

Just check that the brake isn't causing the noise, just manually turn the wheel and see can you hear something that could magnify with speed.

 

[madder]

So those photos wouldn't confirm if the CV joint is bad or not? I need to get the wheel off again then, and try to move the joint myself to see if it is making noise? And if not that, then the bearing.

 

[Mursal]

I would go brakes, bearing and probably not the CV joint if its quiet (not knocking/clicking) on a tight turn. Cant see the joint in the photo, only the CV boot.

Brakes will be easy just visual and listen while turning, it will not sound the same as at high speed but you will hear a noise,

The bearing will be more of a drone and may not show up as play at the top of the wheel. To check jack it up and with the wheel still tightly on, pull in and out on the top of the wheel. It should have little or no movement.
Not an easy thing to replace. But you might get a breaker to part with a complete suspension strut which would be easier to replace. Just ensure its out of the same model and engine size.

See how you go ........

 

[madder]

Ok guys. I had a good amount of time to check wheels and CV joints today. I have recorded some audio and 2 videos of the checks. I can tell you that the back wheels had absolutely ''play'' or movement. Both of the front wheels had what I would describe as a small amount of ''play''. But I don't know if they are both bad or if neither of them is. What I did notice though was the jack needed to be noticeably higher when placing it under the passenger side. Now the road probably wasn't 100% even but the road wasn't THAT bad either. What might that suggest?
Both CV joints made noise when I shook them. One of the videos will show that. The other video will show me shaking the front wheel. Problem is I was holding the camera while shaking the wheel and so judging the movement will probably prove impossible. But some noise can be heard, which I don't know if it is bearing, CV or normal noise?
Finally, I have an audio clip of the car on the motorway at 75mph. As the car bends left, the noise becomes much worse, which happens at 20 seconds in. Might the problem be CV joints only? Or do we still suspect Bearings? Both front wheels gave the same results to the test.

CV Joints both tested the same, with this rattle noise.

Wheel bearing ''play'' test. Apologies for the shaky video which probably does nothing to help in seeing the amount of play in the wheels. They had, what seemed to me to be a small amount of play. When I shook them enough, you can hear a noise. Not sure if the noise was anything to do with the CV joint or the bearing or whatever?

Audio of the car on a motorway at 75mph. At 20 seconds the car is bending left and the noise gets very bad suggesting the CV joint perhaps?

I will hopefully get it in the the breakers this week anyway. Thanks again for all the help guys, and please le me know what you think of these videos!

 

[potshot]

One other thing to check is saw tooth tyre wear. Run you hand lightly over the inner tread of the rear tyres. Go both clockwise and anti clockwise and if you find it is very rough/bumpy one way then thats what you have got. The tyre will be knackered as you can reverse the wear. Sometimes, on first inspection, the tyre can have pleanty of tread but when you examine the tyre you can almost be down to canvas on the inner tread.

The cure is a full four wheel laser alignment and a new set of rear tyres.