I take it.....you don't have freedom of speech lawSlogger said:so u say just let them do what they want eh ??
well then that a crock if ever i heard one
the powers are afriad to upset them so we have tooo
i am positive is the mussies do this on tyneside they willl get a kicking
why isnt it so anywhere alse
what would i be arrested for if i try to stop someone burning our flag ?? patriotism if so then bring it on whats the penalty for that
Latest Muslim march in London
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confidentincompetent
mlb3c said:
We used to. Depends who you are. Recentlly a woman who lost her son in the Iraq war was arrested by vanloads of police under TERRORISM law just for reciting list of names of the dead soldiers. She was white and a taxpayer. say no more!!!
One rule for one and one for others, anything to keep the peace.
But guess what it's not working.
But guess what it's not working.
I hate to be the one to point out the bleeding obvious because I suppose I'll get a kicking for it in this thread but....................there were only a few hundred people demonstrating in the uk today. You can't justify attacking whole communities here based on what a few nutters do when the rest of them aren't doing anything except whingeing in the press.
They may be being a pain in the arse about it but the only fair response to whingers is to tell them to shut up, not attack them. That's why we are more civilised because our reactions are reasonable, we don't start threatening to saw peoples heads off over a newspaper cartoon.
Most muslims find them as upsetting as everyone else because they cause this kind of reaction. I know people will say well what about the trouble abroad over it, but, that's the point isn't it. The troubles not happening here it's happening there
They may be being a pain in the arse about it but the only fair response to whingers is to tell them to shut up, not attack them. That's why we are more civilised because our reactions are reasonable, we don't start threatening to saw peoples heads off over a newspaper cartoon.
Most muslims find them as upsetting as everyone else because they cause this kind of reaction. I know people will say well what about the trouble abroad over it, but, that's the point isn't it. The troubles not happening here it's happening there
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No Pickles it is correct to point out the facts and get things in perspective, but also in the same week that 2 BNP people went to court for just talking about things and as pointed out the women who was arrested for reading out dead soldiers names and now people dress up in suicide vests and chant death to the people of this country for the only reason i can see of beiong non muslim, and in our wonderfull democracy the police do naff all.
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confidentincompetent
pickles said:
Qiute right. They were only a minority I agree. BUT!! why were'nt they arrested like you or I would have been if we carried a placard inciting death to muslims.
Pickles, glad to hear some sanity at last
If people will learn the facts maybe they might form more balanced opinions. The majority of muslims were probably upset, and rightly so, by the pictures in the newspaper, spread across the world, but a very small minority of them reacted so objectionably as the protestors. Muslims have even condemned the march:
See - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676524.stm
...and if you look at the placards, do you notice the similarities? Most of them appear to have been done by the same person or people. This is because this march was organised by Hizb ut-Tahrir or HT as it is more commonly known, a well-orchestrated extremist organisation that the government wish to ban.
See - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4127688.stm
They are the polar opposite of the BNP but yet have so much in common.
Regarding Denmark, these pictures were first published in September of last year! There was internal debate within the country and that should have been the end of it, but people have used it as a political football. Either libertarians claiming the right to free speech to publish whatever they choose regardless of how they offend or muslim extremists. Some leaders in mosques over there, just as our own despicable Abu Hamza, are from the Arab world who live and act with a mindset alien to the country in which they live. Some have fueled this fire, instead of trying to resolve it peacefully, by taking it to the Arab press. But they are in the minority, yet their actions instigate many other impressionable fools.
It might be worth reminding some here that there is even a muslim politician in Denmark who is under 24-hour police guard as he has spoken out against these muslim extremists who have issued death threats against him. How do those on here with their views towards muslims see him?
I agree that this government should come down severely on anybody who breaks the law or incites hatred and violence of whatever creed or colour, but don't be so ignorant as to tar everyone with the same brush.
Hitler created that mindset against the Jews, let's not start the descent to doing it to muslims.
I'm perfectly happy to conduct a civil debate with anyone with intelligent reason, but see it as fruitless with certain people. Some of the jingoistic triumphalism is childish in the extremes and shows ignorance and shallowness.
So, please think twice before you post neanderthal, backslapping posts...think for yourself instead of reducing yourself to the lowest common denominator, which it appears all too evident recently.
If people will learn the facts maybe they might form more balanced opinions. The majority of muslims were probably upset, and rightly so, by the pictures in the newspaper, spread across the world, but a very small minority of them reacted so objectionably as the protestors. Muslims have even condemned the march:
See - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676524.stm
...and if you look at the placards, do you notice the similarities? Most of them appear to have been done by the same person or people. This is because this march was organised by Hizb ut-Tahrir or HT as it is more commonly known, a well-orchestrated extremist organisation that the government wish to ban.
See - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4127688.stm
They are the polar opposite of the BNP but yet have so much in common.
Regarding Denmark, these pictures were first published in September of last year! There was internal debate within the country and that should have been the end of it, but people have used it as a political football. Either libertarians claiming the right to free speech to publish whatever they choose regardless of how they offend or muslim extremists. Some leaders in mosques over there, just as our own despicable Abu Hamza, are from the Arab world who live and act with a mindset alien to the country in which they live. Some have fueled this fire, instead of trying to resolve it peacefully, by taking it to the Arab press. But they are in the minority, yet their actions instigate many other impressionable fools.
It might be worth reminding some here that there is even a muslim politician in Denmark who is under 24-hour police guard as he has spoken out against these muslim extremists who have issued death threats against him. How do those on here with their views towards muslims see him?
I agree that this government should come down severely on anybody who breaks the law or incites hatred and violence of whatever creed or colour, but don't be so ignorant as to tar everyone with the same brush.
Hitler created that mindset against the Jews, let's not start the descent to doing it to muslims.
I'm perfectly happy to conduct a civil debate with anyone with intelligent reason, but see it as fruitless with certain people. Some of the jingoistic triumphalism is childish in the extremes and shows ignorance and shallowness.
So, please think twice before you post neanderthal, backslapping posts...think for yourself instead of reducing yourself to the lowest common denominator, which it appears all too evident recently.
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Big_Spark
I certainly did not tar the entire Muslim community with one brush, I stated that the TROUBLEMAKERS should be the ones dealt with and the mosques which allow these troublemakers in their ranks should be closed, as was Finsbury Park Mosque.
The Muslim community needs to Police itself if it is not to be tarred with the same brush though, the Police and the wider community cannot do it in Isolation.
The 700 odd protesters in London should be dealt with though, if they carried placades which advocated or incited violence of any type, then they should have been arrested and the full weight of the law used to prosecute them.
What people, mostly the liberals, fail to realise is that when the authorities fail to act against a group from a minority who are openly and blatently breaking the law, they are simply generating and sustaining the belief amongst many in the general population that the law is biased against the majority of the population, and this is a very dangerous situation as it helps to generate distrust, unrest and potentially a wider disobedience of the law.
I am not religious at all, I do not give a stuff about it, however this is a CHRISTIAN country and the Muslim community should remember that we are tolerant in allowing their Mosques and be respectful of this tolerance. In Islamic countries simply praying in a way which is not Islamic will get you arrested, building a non-Islamic place of worship is one of the worst crimes one can commit in an Islamic state.
These people who demonstrated in London should be very very grateful, had they marched like this, with these placades in any of the Islamic states around the world, and many other states for that matter, they would have been arrested enmass, many probably killed in the process by the security services and likely spent many months, possibly years in prison. The organisers would almost certainly face the death penalty.
They should be grateful and respectful of this freedom, if they do not, then our society has the right to defend itself from attack by whatever means deemed appropriate to deal with that threat.
The Muslim community needs to Police itself if it is not to be tarred with the same brush though, the Police and the wider community cannot do it in Isolation.
The 700 odd protesters in London should be dealt with though, if they carried placades which advocated or incited violence of any type, then they should have been arrested and the full weight of the law used to prosecute them.
What people, mostly the liberals, fail to realise is that when the authorities fail to act against a group from a minority who are openly and blatently breaking the law, they are simply generating and sustaining the belief amongst many in the general population that the law is biased against the majority of the population, and this is a very dangerous situation as it helps to generate distrust, unrest and potentially a wider disobedience of the law.
I am not religious at all, I do not give a stuff about it, however this is a CHRISTIAN country and the Muslim community should remember that we are tolerant in allowing their Mosques and be respectful of this tolerance. In Islamic countries simply praying in a way which is not Islamic will get you arrested, building a non-Islamic place of worship is one of the worst crimes one can commit in an Islamic state.
These people who demonstrated in London should be very very grateful, had they marched like this, with these placades in any of the Islamic states around the world, and many other states for that matter, they would have been arrested enmass, many probably killed in the process by the security services and likely spent many months, possibly years in prison. The organisers would almost certainly face the death penalty.
They should be grateful and respectful of this freedom, if they do not, then our society has the right to defend itself from attack by whatever means deemed appropriate to deal with that threat.
i dont want islam in my country anymore
i dont want it because i think it a threat to our society
the only good muslim is one that is not on uk soil
there are more people thinking like me they are going to be tarred with the same brush because the ones doing the outragous marches never get arrested
we see young amongst them they will grow up indoctrinated into this regime at the very least they should be taken into care away from these evil islamic worshipers
get onto free speech WHITE people have no free speech that has been the case because its easier to keep us down ??? how it is easier
i say fu*** muhammed and his followers this is uk we dont want a stiniking ***** religion on our land why cant the powers see this
time for a referendum on this i think see where we stand
i dont want it because i think it a threat to our society
the only good muslim is one that is not on uk soil
there are more people thinking like me they are going to be tarred with the same brush because the ones doing the outragous marches never get arrested
we see young amongst them they will grow up indoctrinated into this regime at the very least they should be taken into care away from these evil islamic worshipers
get onto free speech WHITE people have no free speech that has been the case because its easier to keep us down ??? how it is easier
i say fu*** muhammed and his followers this is uk we dont want a stiniking ***** religion on our land why cant the powers see this
time for a referendum on this i think see where we stand
calm down slogger calm down, its not muhammed and his followers that'll do you in but them chinese, their the ones that'll have you, sleep with one eye open and booby trap the front door cos their coming for you.
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mlb3c said:I take it.....you don't have freedom of speech lawSlogger said:so u say just let them do what they want eh ??
well then that a crock if ever i heard one
the powers are afriad to upset them so we have tooo
i am positive is the mussies do this on tyneside they willl get a kicking
why isnt it so anywhere alse
what would i be arrested for if i try to stop someone burning our flag ?? patriotism if so then bring it on whats the penalty for that
British people dont...not even in their own country...but for everyone else...yes...they can say and do whatever they want.
Why?...because of the do gooders and medlers who live in their comfy houses in suburbia...a long way away from the pimps the windscreen washers...the beggers the drug pushers and the muggers....the are the "'we should welcome all races and creed to our wonderful country...er...but not in my back yard thank you" brigade....they have insisted that 'imports' are put n a pedestal...given more than the people who have lived here all their lives....they are the ones who work in our town halls deciding that gollywogs should be taken off of jam jars...the raod safety campaign Tuffty (remember that anyone?) should be banned because the family was made up of sexual stereotypes and didnt feature any ethnics...last year they wanted to take the 'St' out of the names of Catholic Schools for fear of upsetting Jews and Muslims!!!!...even the Jews and Muslims told them to be sensible...and these are so called educated people..what will be next??...removing the black sections from Zebra crossing becasue it is representitive of white people treading on the black race????...dont put it past them!
They are the ones partly to blame for race hate becasue they are trying to force other races on people...and giving them preferential treatment.
And no..im not a tabloid reader!
confidentincompetent said:
The police would have started a riot by arresting people. That would just have given them even more publicity and turned a minor demo into a public relations victory for the demonstraters. No one likes to see it, it gets up my nose. I travel on the tube regularily and the sight of them yesterday going on about 7/7 made me really angry, but that's what they wanted isn't it, a reaction. Being ignored and marginalised and left on the lunatic fringe is the worst thing in the world for the radically minded. These demos are also a goldmine of info for the security services and there's more to be gained by seeing who's doing what than by putting the boot in
You have to be able to play a longer game with them and that's what the police will do. They will have identified the ring leaders and will, I hope, arrest them later. This is an image and media conflict with al qaeda and their friends over here as well as a shooting war and giving them air time plays into their hands. They will be beaten by persuading the people that support them to stop. No one has ever changed anyones mind long term by blowing them up or shooting at them. The IRA couldn't here with the uk population and neither could we with Irish Nationalists, eventually both sides had to negotiate It will be the same for radical islam in the uk. No amount of force by them will change the majority opinions in this country and they will eventually have to accept that and either shut, up and tolerate our values (which is not the same as like them) or **** off to Saudi Arabia . The only issue is how much blood gets spilt on the way
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So your suggesting that they are left alone to demonstrate...ignored in case they spark a riot if they are arrested..?
Which is fine..... as long as the police/local council dont ban the next BNP march and dont arrest people for speaking their minds at a private organised events
Im no fan of Griffin and his neo nazi pricks...but you cant ignore one group of protesters and nick another..
Especially when the latter actually come from this country.
If the police and government chose to leave them alone then they must accept the fact that at some point in time there is going to be a severe basklash...'rivers of blood' and all that......
If they do the right thing now and nick a few of hese.and deport them instantly...no questions...then it will deter the next bunch from trying it on.
Which is fine..... as long as the police/local council dont ban the next BNP march and dont arrest people for speaking their minds at a private organised events
Im no fan of Griffin and his neo nazi pricks...but you cant ignore one group of protesters and nick another..
Especially when the latter actually come from this country.
If the police and government chose to leave them alone then they must accept the fact that at some point in time there is going to be a severe basklash...'rivers of blood' and all that......
If they do the right thing now and nick a few of hese.and deport them instantly...no questions...then it will deter the next bunch from trying it on.
Zampa said:
I don't think you read my post properly. I am not saying we should leave them alone. I am saying we should handle it more thoughtfully than just wading straight in. They should be prosecuted with the least possible publicity after the event when no one's paying attention anymore. That leaves them with nothing. No publicity and a criminal conviction. They are trying to draw attention to themselves because they want and need the publicity. The same applies to the BNP, all the prosecution has done is raise their profile. they started off droning on in the back of a boozer in Keighley and now theyr'e on the 9 o'clock news
Isolated rioting maybe but I don't think there will be a rivers of blood backlash. There wasn't after the tube bombings last year and there wasn't during the IRA campaign which was just as bloody and also partly about ethnic origins and beliefs. Violence doesn't radicalise people enough for that because however terrible it's happening to someone else, you need sever economic recession so everyone suffers before people start to support extreme solutions
It wouldn't get us anywhere in the long term anyway. It would just make us a target for more terrorist attacks, the more greivances you create the greater the likelihood of violence in return. The muslim world will organise and arm itself in the years to come. The big problem for us is that they have the oil, which we ultimately need to resist them, and don't need to sell it to the west, Russia and China would be quite happy to buy it. Unfortunately oil is the ace in the pack and they are holding all 4. There is going to be a major political and military confrontation at some time in the next hundred years and I don't think we are going to win unless we work out a better long term strategy than we have now
sorry that last paragraphs heading a bit off topic
I'm sure you could manage it, if you try hard, and really concentrate. It's OK to move your lips while you do it....Zampa said:
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