Leak - from a roof tank overflow

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Last night a bit of water was dripping through our bathroom ceiling.

I had a quick look and will be doing more of an investigation after writing this.

So far it looks like the ballcock didn't completely shut off the water entering the cold water tank in the roof, there was a trickle entering the tank when I looked. Can ballcock valves sometimes fail because they are too old, too low quality, or whatever? The level of the water in the tank was so high it was spilling over into the overflow pipe. And below the overflow pipe outlet, next to the tank, there was a puddle of water on the top of the ceiling of the bathroom. So it looks like the overflow pipe may be either leaking or blocked. Is that a very common thing to be happening?


I bent the rod that holds the float so that the whole float would have to be under water for the overflow pipe to flood, hoping that this would apply more pressure to the ballcock valve, and it seems to have done the trick for now.

UPDATE: I had a look at the overflow pipe from the cold water tank. It leads across the roof space and disappears into a gable wall. But when I go outside and look to see where it comes out of that gable wall there is no trace of a pipe of any kind. And whilst outside the house looking at the external walls I cannot see an extra overflow pipe anywhere. There is a central heater overflow pipe which I can trace back to the central heater header tank, and a small copper pipe which was at one time for the toilet cistern. What could have happened? The house is 50 years old, could it have be like this for 50 years and never become a problem because the ballcock did its job properly?

I am going to pour a little water into the overflow pipe inside the cold water storage tank see what happens.

UPDATE 2: I poured a bit of water down the overflow pipe and sure enough it dribbled out of the bend in the pipe outside the tank and the water dripped down onto the inside of the bathroom ceiling. I placed a big tray to catch any drips. Now that the ballcock seems to be doing its job I will see about getting the tank replaced. I can keep my eye on it to make sure the ballcock isn't dripping and if it is I can switch off the feed using the tap which controls the flow of water into the ballcock. And switch it off overnight as a precaution.

Any comments and advice welcome.

So, roughly what would it cost to have a new cold water tank installed? The one I have is 50 years old, fiberglass, and seems to have some cracks appearing at the top. Will probably have to be a coffin tank to get into the roof space. To get a better head of water I may ask for it to be placed a bit higher. And hopefully the overflow from the cold water tank and the overflow from the central heater head tank can use the same exit point through the eves of the roof, so no core-cutting required?
 
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Ballcocks are a maintenance item. They may be ok for several years but will need attention eventually. It is possible to replace washers but usually it is easier and more cost effective to replace the whole thing.
The overflow should be visible from the outside so that it gives you a warning if the ballcock is failing. It should not leak into the loft and this should be fixed once you get the ballcock replaced.
You should expect to pay a few hundred for a new cold water cistern and fitting. How much will depend on size, access, and position and number of connections.
 
Thank you, makes sense. By a few hundred might that mean maybe £500 TO £800 including bits, labour, tax, etc? Needs to be a coffin tank to get through a hatch, they seem to be quite pricey.
 
I'm not clear why you want to replace the whole CW storage tank when the issue you have is a leaking overflow pipe. Can't you just get that leak fixed, and maybe also replace the ballcock as a precaution?
 
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The tank is an elderly fiberglass tank, there are some cracks around the top. It is bulging outwards due to the weight of the water in it and I have put a wooden brace across the top to stop it bulging any more. I could probably make a better job of supporting it with a wooden framework around the outside of the tank and it would be okay. But for peace of mind and reduction of risk of catastrophic failure I think it is better replaced.

The overflow is also a problem as it doesn't actually overflow to anywhere that I can see. Inside the roof space it disappears into a gable wall but when viewed from the outside it can't be seen exiting the house. Which explains why the water is backing up in the overflow pipe and leaking out at a joint.

Will the guy that comes in to fit the new tank be allowed by regulations to exit the overflow via the eves? The central heater header tank exits that way, will he be able to tap into it so that it is a shared overflow? If not I expect he will need to core-cut a hole in the gable wall?
 

8.1 Internal services


8.1.4 Cold water storage​


Cold water service shall be provided in accordance with statutory requirements and be adequate. Issues to be taken into account include:​

  1. cold water storage
  2. cisterns
  3. cisterns support
  4. warning and overflow pipes
  5. access.

8.1.4.1 Cold water storage#

Cold water storage should be provided with suitable capacity and include primary feed cisterns where indirect water heating systems are installed. Cold water storage should be provided:​

  • to supply an open vented hot water storage system (where required by the water supplier)
  • to supply cold water outlets (where not connected to the mains supply)
  • designs should prevent undue consumption, contamination and water wastage.

8.1.4.2 Cisterns#

Cisterns should:​

  • be accessible for inspection and maintenance
  • be protected by a rigid close-fitting cover (non-airtight) that also excludes light and insects
  • have holes neatly formed with a cutter in the positions shown in the design
  • be suitably supported.

8.1.4.3 Cistern support#

The cistern bottom should be continuously supported by materials such as:​

  • softwood boarding
  • plywood to BS EN 636-2s
  • chipboard type P5 to BS EN 312
  • oriented strand board type OSB3 to BS EN 300, laid with the stronger axis (as marked on board) at right angles to the bearers.

8.1.4.4 Warning and overflow pipes#

Warning and overflow pipes should:​

  • be provided at each cold-water cistern, to a suitable external discharge, unless permitted by water regulations where it may be internal if it is conspicuous
  • be adequately sized (19mm internal diameter (ID) minimum)
  • be situated 25mm above the shut-off water level in the cistern
  • be in accordance with water regulations, terminate vertically downwards or be fitted with a horizontal tee where it discharges. And may dip below the water level where permitted by the water regulations.
 
Sorry about the bold - cut and paste in the above post.

Yes to a separate overflow through gable wall and the base for the new cistern must be of material that won't degrade if it gets wet.
 
Thank you, I am in Scotland but presume that regs will be (almost) the same.


Hopefully an SDS drill will be adequate for the hole?
 
I don't see anything in the regs specifically outlawing an overflow shared between the CW storage tank and the CH header tank. As long as there is continuous fall on the overflow pipes, both before and after they join together, I don't see a problem.
The only downside I can see is that, if the overflow starts to run, you won't know which of the tanks is causing it. But that's easily resolved by just inspecting the tanks.
 
Yes, ballcock valves can fail over time due to wear and tear, mineral build-up, or low-quality materials. It's quite common for them to stop shutting off properly, which leads to overflow problems like the one you're experiencing. Adjusting the float rod as you did is a temporary fix, but replacing the valve might be the best long-term solution.

The overflow pipe should lead outside to a visible point where any excess water can safely escape. It’s unusual that you can’t find the outlet. It’s possible that the pipe is blocked, disconnected, or improperly installed. Given the age of the house, this might have been a long-standing issue that only surfaced now due to the ballcock valve problem.
 
Thanks everyone. I have a quote to replace the water tank of £725 all in. This may seem a bit high but it includes core-cutting a hole through the wall and a coffin tank. And also I live in Edinburgh and things ain't cheap here.

But the thing is that the whole system including the boiler is 14 yrs old and I don't want to spend money on a roof tank that won't be needed if and when I need to upgrade the system. The current system is a boiler and hot water tank, the central heater system has it's own header tank with overflow. The only tap using high pressure mains water is the kitchen cold tap, the rest at fed off the tank in the roof.

So I am thinking that I will make do and mend. I will place a wooden frame around the cracked cold water tank to stop it bulging and prevent more cracking (I won't drill holes in or fix to the actual tank in any way). And for the overflow from the cold water tank it has occurred to me I could arrange for the overflow to go down through the ceiling over the bath, so that if there is an overflow it will drip into the bath (I know this would not comply with regulations). When I go on holiday I might cut off the input to the cold water tank as a precaution.

Any comments welcome.
 

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