Leaking hot water cylinder and plumber trouble

[Soggy_weetabix]

Soft Arse

I guarantee any plumbing work (with regards to leaks) for 1 year.

I do this because I have absolute confidence that I wont be called back.

I agree with your point about non dissatisfaction with the original plumber, and the leak maybe nothing to do with his workmanship.

BUT that aside, surely for the benefit of a valued customer would it not be beneficial to 'show a bit of willing', and at least try and fix the fault.

If its not workmanship, you charge for the repair, explain to the customer why you have charged and if an issues arises in payment then....new thread.

David

 

[Softus]

Soft a**e

You run the risk of undermining your own point with this type of schoolboy insult.

I guarantee any plumbing work (with regards to leaks) for 1 year.

I do this because I have absolute confidence that I wont be called back.

I'm impressed. My own guarantee, however, is infinitely longer, because it doesn't expire. Ever.

I agree with your point about non dissatisfaction with the original plumber, and the leak maybe nothing to do with his workmanship.

BUT that aside, surely for the benefit of a valued customer would it not be beneficial to 'show a bit of willing', and at least try and fix the fault.

If its not workmanship, you charge for the repair, explain to the customer why you have charged and if an issues arises in payment then....new thread.

Yes (yawn), which is why, earlier in the topic, I wrote this:

Of course it's poor show that the guy hasn't come back to sort it out, after saying that he would, but you've given him a chance so now it's time to get someone else.

If it turns out that fault lies was the original guy, then you have the right to charge him, but you'll go through a whole load of grief for comparitively little gain.

By all means criticese the guy for not coming back, although we've still only heard one side of the story. If that's the way he runs his business then he'll soon be short of recommendations. B*gger him. He's old news. Life's too short. Move on.

 

[chrishutt]

My own guarantee, however, is infinitely longer, because it doesn't expire. Ever.

Softus = Count Dracula? (would explain a lot...)

.....or someone else who doesnt expire. Ever.

Life's too short

Not yours, apparently.

 

[stevefo]

Thanks for all you comments, seemed I've started a big debate.

I somehow managed to mislay this post so here is it again - apologies if it turns up twice.

You should politely remind him to come and do it when he has a moment.
Tony

I've tried that but he won't even return my calls - so I need to take it to the next level, whatever that may be

contact another plumber and forward the cost to him

Theres no chance of him sending me a cheque to pay for this - he won't even return my calls.

apply a leak sealant as a temporary fix.

so its just a temporary fix? What in 2 years time when it starts to leak again from the same place?

why should he get paid and get away with a shonky job??

Yes - if I buy anything else its covered by a years guarantee - why should this be any different?

the customer has been rude to you.

Where do you get this idea? I've been courteous, patient and politely requested this be fixed - after every excuse under the sun and non-returning of calls I'm asking what I should do? Maybe its time to get rude - being polite has been no use.

 

[Softus]

My own guarantee, however, is infinitely longer, because it doesn't expire. Ever.

Softus = Count Dracula?

.....or someone else who doesnt expire. Ever.

Life's too short

Not yours, apparently.

Now that's amusing

My subliminal point was supposed to be: why have a guarantee that expires after only one year? Does good workmanship decay?

For example, say I fit a vented cylinder with a mains pressure shower coil, and protect the coil with a limiting valve, an expansion vessel and PRV. If the coil splits within one year then the manufacturer pays, but I don't refit the cylinder for nought.

However, if it splits because I didn't protect it (fictitious scenario of course), then it's down to me, and that applies however long it takes for that installation fault to come to light, not just within 12 arbitary months

 

[Softus]

OK stevefo, it's time to address your question...

It's your duty, in law, to offer an installer a reasonable opportunity to remedy a fault, be it defective workmanship or simple human error. You've fulfilled your duty in this respect, but I recommend that you put your position in writing, dispassionately, for future reference.

Start behaving as if you will end up in court, keep copies of all paperwork, keep a simple diary (you won't regret it), and do everthing by the book.

The installer might ignore your written request for his attendance, which, BTW, will very politely tell him that if he doesn't attend within 48 hours then you will have to engage someone else to diagnose the fault, and, should a report indicate that the original installation was faulty, that you will hold him liable for the cost of repairs.

If he ignores it, which I strongly doubt, then off you go - get another plumber or heating engineer. Make it a condition of his/her engagement that he writes down for you his/her diagnosis before undertaking repairs, and also that you are furnished with a written invoice detailing the work and why it was necessary.

Then, send a copy of the invoice to the original plumber. Give him two weeks to pay up. After two weeks, write one last time - state that the letter is "Notice before Proceedings", and give him one week to pay up.

Then, visit www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

Oh, one more thing - take professional legal advice, or talk to the CAB.

Now then, on to your other points...

Thanks for all you comments, seemed I've started a big debate.

The correct term is a "mass debate".

contact another plumber and forward the cost to him

Theres no chance of him sending me a cheque to pay for this - he won't even return my calls.

Then write to him (as per above), and then sue him (as per above).

apply a leak sealant as a temporary fix.

so its just a temporary fix? What in 2 years time when it starts to leak again from the same place?

Two years is not what I had in mind - you've made one huge assumption there.

why should he get paid and get away with a shonky job??

Yes - if I buy anything else its covered by a years guarantee - why should this be any different?

Er, because it's not an off-the-shelf product that you've bought. How could it more different?

the customer has been rude to you.

Where do you get this idea? I've been courteous, patient and politely requested this be fixed - after every excuse under the sun and non-returning of calls I'm asking what I should do? Maybe its time to get rude - being polite has been no use.

I don't appreciate you taking a fragment of my post and using it to challenge my intent. I didn't "get this idea" from anywhere. I simply pointed out that other posters are making assumptions - my full sentence was as follows:

Now imagine that you who installed it, that there's a pinhole in the cylinder boss, and that the customer has been rude to you. Get my point now? We have only one side of the story and it's a pretty sketchy picture at that.

It....was....an....example.

 

[Agile]

Its unreasonable to expect him to attend within 48 hours in this context.

Ask him to CONTACT you within 48 hours to make an appointment.

That still enables you to know where you stand withing 48 hours.

Make it clear that if you dont hear from him that you will be forced to engage another plumber to attend and that in the event that he discovers that it was his workmanship that has caused the leak then you will be looking to him for the cost of fixing it.

If you were to do this be sure that you engage a plumber of some standing, a member of the IPHE for example, who is capable of writing a report in English with a word processor. His appearance and voice should be appropriate for a Court expert witness! Ask if he owns a tie !

However, in spite of all that frivolity, this will not end up in Court because the repair will take about 30 minutes and would realistically cost about £35 as an add on job.

Tony

 

[Softus]

Its unreasonable to expect him to attend within 48 hours in this context.

In your opinion.

His appearance and voice should be appropriate for a Court expert witness! Ask if he owns a tie !

This is unnecessary. It's unlikely that the second plumber would be expected to attend court, and, if he was, to dress like a plumber would be acceptable. In any case he wouldn't be an expert witness, merely a witness.

...the repair will take about 30 minutes and would realistically cost about £35 as an add on job.

Agile - have you already diagnosed the fault?

 

[Agile]

"""Agile - have you already diagnosed the fault"""

Yes, based on all the available evidence , its leaking!

You think that the "second plumber" would only be a witness. However if his evidence is to carry any weight then he would need to be a credible "expert witness".

As to wearing ties, dont you read your IPHE journal and see all the pictures of members at various functions all wearing ties, in most cases BOW ties and dinner jackets!

Tony

 

[Softus]

"""Agile - have you already diagnosed the fault"""

Yes, based on all the available evidence , its leaking!

Oh. Right.

You think that the "second plumber" would only be a witness.

Yes.

However if his evidence is to carry any weight then he would need to be a credible "expert witness".

I don't know why you think that.

As to wearing ties, dont you read your IPHE journal and see all the pictures of members at various functions all wearing ties, in most cases BOW ties and dinner jackets!

I don't how to answer this. You give the impression that you regard a court appearance as some kind social function.

 

[Agile]

"""You give the impression that you regard a court appearance as some kind (of) social function."""

The people regularly involved in Court appearances certainly seem to view it as such and go to such great lengths that they buy expensive wigs to wear in Court!

Tony

PS due to the imposing stature of a Court they are referred to with a capital"C". But of course I would not expect a "tieless plumber" to know that!

 

[Softus]

The people regularly involved in Court appearances certainly seem to view it as such and go to such great lengths that they buy expensive wigs to wear in Court!

Since you seem to be into point-scoring on general and specific legal knowledge, I would point out that certain courts require robed attendance by judges, counsel (and to a degree, by court officials), which can include wigs, but this isn't a matter of choice (except for judges).

PS due to the imposing stature of a Court they are referred to with a capital"C". But of course I would not expect a "tieless plumber" to know that!

You make too many assumptions, based upon too little knowledge. Certainly, specific courts are given a capital, e.g. Crown Court, Court of Appeal, etc., or when referring to a specific Court in abbreviated form, e.g. "the Court", but a reference in general to a court of law has no such etymological requirement.

If you were referring to the County Court in your post, then you should have used Court, but you haven't said whether or not you were. I certainly wasn't.

 

[Agile]

Where, other than a County Court, would you expect a case involving faulty plumbing to be heard?

Tony

 

[Softus]

Where, other than a County Court, would you expect a case involving faulty plumbing to be heard?

A simple and low value civil case would certainly begin in the County Court, but a criminal case would be heard in the Magistrates Court or the Crown Court. And, depending on what happened in either example, possibly the High Court and possibly the Court of Appeal. I'll ignore the European Courts for now.

Actually, I don't know why you're asking, since I suspect you already know, in which case your question is rather disingenuous.

In any case, my earlier recommendation, namely "Start behaving as if you will end up in court", was a general reference to a court of law, not a specific reference to the County Court. If you were referring to the County Court then so be it, but you're vainly and retrospectively attempting to show that mine was, when it wasn't.

 

[stevefo]

OK stevefo, it's time to address your question...

It's your duty, in law, to offer an installer a reasonable opportunity to remedy a fault, be it defective workmanship or simple human error. You've fulfilled your duty in this respect, but I recommend that you put your position in writing, dispassionately, for future reference.

Start behaving as if you will end up in court, keep copies of all paperwork, keep a simple diary (you won't regret it), and do everthing by the book.

The installer might ignore your written request for his attendance, which, BTW, will very politely tell him that if he doesn't attend within 48 hours then you will have to engage someone else to diagnose the fault, and, should a report indicate that the original installation was faulty, that you will hold him liable for the cost of repairs.

If he ignores it, which I strongly doubt, then off you go - get another plumber or heating engineer. Make it a condition of his/her engagement that he writes down for you his/her diagnosis before undertaking repairs, and also that you are furnished with a written invoice detailing the work and why it was necessary.

Then, send a copy of the invoice to the original plumber. Give him two weeks to pay up. After two weeks, write one last time - state that the letter is "Notice before Proceedings", and give him one week to pay up.

Then, visit www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

Oh, one more thing - take professional legal advice, or talk to the CAB.

Thanks - that was the info I was after. If the LSX doesn't seal it I'll go down this route.