Leaking roof / box gutter! - what do I do?

[JackBauer]

Hiya all

I've got a problem with my roof and need advice on what to do! The building is a pretty typical 3 storey victorian terrace in London, and my flat occupies the 2nd and 3rd floor - the 3rd floor is an attic conversion. Not sure when the conversion was done, but I imaging 5ish years ago. I own the leasehold on the flat.

Here are some pics of the leak and the problem area: pics

There's a parapet wall across the front of the building, and a zinc box gutter where the pitched roof meets it. The zinc is in two steps and each has a weld in it. It's been raining heavily the past few days and the water pools to a depth of about an inch in the lower step of the zinc, and after a while I can hear water dripping onto the edge ceiling of the living room underneath, and it drips through. The drip noise isn't just above where the water comes through, but along the whole length of the room I think. It's not a huge amount of water so most is going down the gutter, but enough for a steady drip. The outflow hole in the gutter is clear.

So I had a roofer come round to the flat today, and he started talking repairing not just the zinc (which I think he wanted to felt over?) but also the boarding around the front of the windows, and also putting guttering around the tops of the dormer windows. This didn't sound quite right to me, there's already zinc there so why does it need felt as well? And while the board might need doing, could that be the source of the leak? My instinct was that it would be the weld that was leaking. He also suggested the cost would be about £750.

I just want it to stop raining inside my flat!

Also I think this should be the freeholder's problem (is that right?) but I can't get hold of him.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Possel]

I don't like the idea of using felt anywhere here, and neither do I like the look of that welding at all...

If water is pooling to about an inch below the step in the zinc, surely it is liable to be going underneath the shallow step where there will be only folds to keep it out? If that pooling is because it's not draining correctly then it's a builder's fault. Check if there's anything blocking the drain.

Can't help with the freeholder/leaseholder responsibility - what does your lease say?

 

[JackBauer]

I don't like the idea of using felt anywhere here, and neither do I like the look of that welding at all...

If water is pooling to about an inch below the step in the zinc, surely it is liable to be going underneath the shallow step where there will be only folds to keep it out? If that pooling is because it's not draining correctly then it's a builder's fault. Check if there's anything blocking the drain.

Can't help with the freeholder/leaseholder responsibility - what does your lease say?

Yes I think the pooling is because the guttering slopes slightly in the wrong direction. Is that something that can easily be rectified? Seems to me like you'd need to take he metal off and start again. Not good.

I don't think an inch of water would be enough to get up to the fold. So presumably it must be the weld?

 

[Watshot]

Also I think this should be the freeholder's problem (is that right?) but I can't get hold of him.

Thanks for any advice.

Flats in a shared building would normally have a management company that you pay an annual fee to that are generally responsible for maintenance issues with the building and communal outside areas. Your roof is also your neighbours roof on the ground floor.

This would not normally involve the freeholder, he is not your landlord.

Your lease agreement will specify who has responsibility for what. Are you not paying a management fee?

 

[joe-90]

Leaks can be a nightmare to find from above. Personally, I'd take down the wet plasterboard and have a look from below to see what was going on.

It probably is the weld but I'd confirm that first' get it fixed, and live with it a bit. Then I'd replace said board, take off lining paper and skim the whole ceiling.

The whole job should cost £300 ish. (If that).

 

[Xenon]

Its the step joint in the Zinc that is leaking. It hasn't been folded up high enough or has a split in the fold, water build up is rising above the fold/split and entering the building. You have 4 choices;

1) Strip out and re do in lead (Code 5 for sole, 4 for flashing)
2) Clean, prime and coat with liquid coating such as Decothane or Cromapol (Correct metal Primer required)
3) HT felt after priming(Needs a gifted felter with all that timber about)
Cut out and re do the joint and solder Zinc as required .

And lease will either be maintainence or non maintainence.

You have Eternits on the Mansard, so i would either repair existing, or coat it.

 

[JackBauer]

Flats in a shared building would normally have a management company that you pay an annual fee to that are generally responsible for maintenance issues with the building and communal outside areas. Your roof is also your neighbours roof on the ground floor.

This would not normally involve the freeholder, he is not your landlord.

Your lease agreement will specify who has responsibility for what. Are you not paying a management fee?

I'm not sure it's a management company, but it is "* * Properties" which is a little company just round the corner so may be so. I pay a few hundred quid every year in ground rent. The woman who owns the flat and business downstairs says the guy is away in the US at the moment.

 

[JackBauer]

Its the step joint in the Zinc that is leaking. It hasn't been folded up high enough or has a split in the fold, water build up is rising above the fold/split and entering the building. You have 4 choices;

1) Strip out and re do in lead (Code 5 for sole, 4 for flashing)
2) Clean, prime and coat with liquid coating such as Decothane or Cromapol (Correct metal Primer required)
3) HT felt after priming(Needs a gifted felter with all that timber about)
Cut out and re do the joint and solder Zinc as required .

And lease will either be maintainence or non maintainence.

You have Eternits on the Mansard, so i would either repair existing, or coat it.

That's awesome. Thank you.

Do you have a rough idea how much it would cost to do these?

 

[cotswoldbuilders]

Id agree with Xenon, steps dont look very high,and with the amount of heavy rain this week it could have breached the step.
The welds look a bit untidy and could be suspect.

You shouldnt have problems after only 5 years.

 

[Xenon]

Its the step joint in the Zinc that is leaking. It hasn't been folded up high enough or has a split in the fold, water build up is rising above the fold/split and entering the building. You have 4 choices;

1) Strip out and re do in lead (Code 5 for sole, 4 for flashing)
2) Clean, prime and coat with liquid coating such as Decothane or Cromapol (Correct metal Primer required)
3) HT felt after priming(Needs a gifted felter with all that timber about)
Cut out and re do the joint and solder Zinc as required .

And lease will either be maintainence or non maintainence.

You have Eternits on the Mansard, so i would either repair existing, or coat it.

That's awesome. Thank you.

Do you have a rough idea how much it would cost to do these?

Keep the repair local, and access out the window, £150 tops for a coating or zinc solder repair.

 

[joe-90]

We've had plenty of heavy downpours in the past five years that would have replicated your leaks many times in a year if it were simply that little step to blame. Far more likely that the welded seam has developed a pinhole/crack, but you'll still have to re-board the ceiling anyway - so there's nothing lost in taking it down and looking from below. Chasing leaks from above is a mugs game.

 

[JackBauer]

So I had another roofer come around to look at the roof. He said the step in the zinc is way too low, about 25mm, so as soon as it starts raining at all heavily the water overflows into the room below. He wants to redo in lead, over the top of the existing. I suggested coating and he wasn't keen.

Anyway here’s the quote, seems like a lot to me. He said rubber expansion joins are expensive… The back gutter is misaligned so I asked him to look at that as well.

Looks to me like 6m Code 5 15” lead is ~£125 (guessing at width), and lead expansion is £14.99 per 100mm – so what am I paying for?

----
Quote

Job Ref: xx xxxxxx Road London

Front Box Gutter

1x Remove slates and zinc flashing to gain access to lower gutter.
1x Supply and fit lead with rubber expansion joins on box gutter.
1x Re-fit Slates Changing any broken ones.
1x Re-fit flashings and seal using a sand and cement mix.
1x Clear all rubbish.

Rear Gutter

1x Strip existing rear gutter and clear from site.
1x Supply and fit new PVC black half round gutter.
1x Clear all rubbish.

Total Price £1,350 +vat

---

Even more than the last guy! After that quote I am thinking about just getting him to coat it, is this a bad idea?

 

[JackBauer]

This was the previous quote:
---
Proposed works to be carried out on the property mentioned above.

Remove the rotten wood on the face of the 2 front dormer windows with new white PVC facing.
Fit PVC fascia boards complete with guttering to the 3 sides of the dormers discharging the rainwater onto the mansard roof.
Rod out the outlet and flush with 1 shot solution.
Seal the zinc solder joint in the gutter with Green mineral Debotec high performance torch-on felt.

All rubbish will be removed when the work is completed and the property left in a clean and tidy state.

The costs of carrying out this work comes to
Sub Total
£ 720.00

 

[Nige F]

So I had another roofer come around to look at the roof. He said the step in the zinc is way too low, about 25mm, so as soon as it starts raining at all heavily the water overflows into the----
---

Even more than the last guy! After that quote I am thinking about just getting him to coat it, is this a bad idea?

Coating it could be DIY and a tin of acrypol 25mm step is indeed too low - it should be min. 55mm for a lead lining ( never done zinc. but hardmetalking might know ) and the expansion joint is a good idea . What are you paying for ? - well if you`re South of the river it might be worth me coming out of the Forest @ the same price as the guy , but I don`t need to charge VAT . or work on 3 storey houses anymore

 

[hardmetalking]

Hi I'm a zinc specialist and in my opinion the detailing looks poor. I would never recommend a step in the gutter but if there had to be one I would make 75mm minimum. It probably used to be lead lined and was replaced with zinc without changing the substrate. The soldered joint doesn't look pretty but seems adequate. There shouldn't be a soldered joint in the whole length, it should be in one piece.

I would be prepared to re solder the joint and make good on the step for £350 cash. If there is anything else suspect I see I would repair while I'm there.