letter from Boris Johnson to Donald Tusk

[SirGalahad]

First off, finanlly an interesting discussion on here. Sure we will disagree but life would be boring if we agreed all the time and if it's done in a civil manner it can only enlighten us.

As ever, its not that simple. UK employment law as clear. Overtime has never been included in holiday pay unless specifically detailed in the employment contract. The EU decided that it should be included for regular and enforced overtime but changed the law for all overtime. I'm not happy about that as it was not an error in calculation by employers, it was an long established practice in the UK. However, laws change from time to time and you adjust your business model to compensate. What particularly annoyed me about this one was the EU decided that the way we paid overtime was wrong and applied it retrospectively with no time limitation. That is just blatantly unfair in my opinion. Workers in this country weren't complaining that it was unfair, it was long established in our law and custom and practice. The UK government challenged the ruling and lost. That is the EU's fault.

My understanding is that the UK interpretation of the rules was challenged and the clarification meant the pay was incorrectly calculated. This was not the fault of the EU or Businesses but what was considered the practice at the time so neither was it challenged by Employees. Once there was clarification then it became one of recalculation.

No, British steel was hit by a change in Carbon credit rules and a drop in the value of the pound. In my opinion it was entirely right that the government should support a viable industry in the short term but it was prevented from doing so and a viable business has now been sold overseas.

We do buy more than we sell, but in specific areas. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to chose to support industries that struggle at particular points in the economic cycle. Particularly industries that require massive capital investment to set up from scratch.

As I pointed our under current EU Rules the Government can purchase a viable business and continue running that viable business. Nothing precludes this. If British Steel was struggling then should we leave it to the free market to decide its fate? If not then who decides what are important industries? If they are important industries then should they be left to the market to dictate their fate. I hear this argument all the time - let companies be free to make profits but the moment they get into trouble it should be upto the Government to bail them out. There is moral hazard at play.

We were part of a buying consortium that was unweidly, struggled to do trade deals in a timely manner and made trade deals that on occasion hurt its members. EG honda stopping production in the UK. Not because of brexit or because it wanted to move production to the EU. Japan did a free trade deal with the EU so no tarrifs on imports from Japan. Therefore no requirement for a factory in the UK or the EU because Japan now has tariff free access to the EU.

As an independent nation with significant demand and the ability to do our own trade deals, we will be an attractive trade partner to the rest of the world. I do not understand how you can deny that.

In bold is just wrong. Trade deals take time - The Japan /Australia deal between two trading nations that covers certain industries took 7 years. So the EU Japan Trade deal reduces tariffs to zero over 7 years I believe and now when we are outside of the EU, our bargaining power will drop but Japan will give us better terms. This is not reality but fantasy. Why are Brexiteers already mentioning dropping tariffs on 87% of goods uniltaerally?

Again you contradict yourself - you want protectionism and higher tariffs and then say our buying power as an indepdent nation will help us achieve that. It won't we will have less negotiating power on our own than part of the EU. To me it seems you are entertaining the idea that you could somehow get a specific trade deal that benefits the Steel Industry.

The creating of regulations and standards is not exclusive to the EU, but the concept of one size fits all is. One size does not fit all across the EU and in my experience of the EU's application of standards to products they have created unnecessary complex an expensive regulatory system in many cases which was not done to address deficiencies.

We're not going to agree. You have your opinions and i have mine. Both Brexiteers and Remainers have strong arguments to support their views. But both parties should also respect the alternative view and not assume that they are stupid because they have different views.

So you don't want standards so how are you going to export to the EU if you don't meet their standards. It seems quite clear that you see regulations as something that holds you back and with Brexit you will be able to release yourself from these shackles but who will you be selling to? If its the EU you will still have to meet these regulations. If your market is domestic then how will Brexit effect your customers and suppliers.

 

[SirGalahad]

Other countries want to trade with us. We are a potential great customer for then and vice versa. WTO rules will only be temporary.

Countries can already trade with us. What is it going to be post brexit that will be easy for them?

So you agree WTO rules are the lowest common denominator.

 

[JohnD]

Other countries want to trade with us. We are a potential great customer for then and vice versa. WTO rules will only be temporary.

UK and South Korea sign 'continuity' trade agreement

"The agreement is roughly in line with the terms of the existing Korea-EU free trade deal."

What exactly was the point of all this again?

 

[SirGalahad]

UK and South Korea sign 'continuity' trade agreement

"The agreement is roughly in line with the terms of the existing Korea-EU free trade deal."

What exactly was the point of all this again?

https://www.ft.com/content/2e5f2c58-c439-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

it's worse than that.

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https://www.ft.com/content/2e5f2c58-c439-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

However, the agreement is not a permanent trade deal because it will need to be renegotiated within two years. The UK will also need to obtain South Korea’s consent to maintain existing tariff-free terms for UK goods with significant European components and for UK components in EU exports.

So not decided on rules of origin either.