I'm a qualified electrician but don't actually work as an electrician. My neighbour can't get an electrician to install him an up to date c.u. because his lights aren't earthed. he won't have the lighting circuits re-wired as it will involve ripping his house to bits. He asked if i would do it. (F.O.C obviously as he's ny neighbour) surely as he understands the dangers he's better off with a new C.U. and rcd protection on his earthed circuits than just leaving things as they are ?
lights not earthed
- Thread starter climbingstelly
- Start date
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Read this best practise guide from ESC. It deals with all the issues
http://www.emtt.co.uk/pdf/replacing_consumer_units.pdf
BTW how will you notify the local authority that the CU has been changed so that you comply with Building Regs Part P?
http://www.emtt.co.uk/pdf/replacing_consumer_units.pdf
BTW how will you notify the local authority that the CU has been changed so that you comply with Building Regs Part P?
I agree.
It is a 'best' practice guide with a statement that it is not statutory and that the installation should not be less safe than it was before.
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So no real electricians will do it, but you will?
He may find he has no choice - that wiring is at least 45 years old.
I think the problem is that if the wiring is as old as some here suspect it may be, you could do more damage by disturbing it than just leaving will alone. I guess you can inspect the installation and ascertain exactly what kind of wiring you'd be dealing with. There's probably a good reason why others who've looked at the job are staying well away.
Thanks for that and i totally agree. I have tried to talk him out of it . He doesn't want to tear the house to bits but i told him there's a good chance that when i carry out the tests i'll probably find things that need doing that will involve tearing the house to bits. Thanks for your comments, as i have mentioned previously although qualified i don't trade so i like to keep one eye on this site. Thanks for not slagging me off as some have i'm only asking. The people who aren't using this site cos they think they know everything are usually the ones making all the mistakes cos they're too proud. thanks
why cant the lights remain unearthed with a new CU?
as long as the existing wiring passes the tests and the all light fittings remain plastic?
im sure ive read that somewhere on this site....
i know its prob not 'best practice' but can it be done to comply with 17th?
as long as the existing wiring passes the tests and the all light fittings remain plastic?
im sure ive read that somewhere on this site....
i know its prob not 'best practice' but can it be done to comply with 17th?
If you can't do a job 100% then walk away from it. Otherwise it will come back and haunt you !!!
Andy
Andy
P
Paul_C
Realistically, the installation will be just as safe as it was before, if not more so due to better circuit protection. Yes, disturbing some old wiring might cause a problem, but this needs to be assessed on an individual basis, and old wiring should not be condemned simply because of its age. There is plenty of PVC-insulated cable still in use from the mid 1960's which is still perfectly safe and serviceable, and if not not exposed to damage by any means will still be so for a good many more years.
PVC cable from the 60's is a bit hit an miss though
-Some of it was plastic rather than PVC
- Some of it was only PVC sheathed and had VIR core insulation
- Some of it is now breaking down into green goo
- Then slightly later there were the whole Alu / copper clad issues.
I'd say by the later part of the 70's they'd got it right, but there is still the 2.5/1.0mm issue to watch out for
Heres one for you though paul, recently tested a house that was wired in 2.5/1.0mm for the rings, so 1970s sometime, but add thing is that all the three core cable for the 2 way switching lacked an earth (no it hadn't been cut off, just wasn't there), now this was 1.5mm cable, not old stranded imperial stuff. I thought 6242Y without a cpc had been discontinued when the 14th came out in the mid 60's?. Any idea on how this cable came to be?
-Some of it was plastic rather than PVC
- Some of it was only PVC sheathed and had VIR core insulation
- Some of it is now breaking down into green goo
- Then slightly later there were the whole Alu / copper clad issues.
I'd say by the later part of the 70's they'd got it right, but there is still the 2.5/1.0mm issue to watch out for
Heres one for you though paul, recently tested a house that was wired in 2.5/1.0mm for the rings, so 1970s sometime, but add thing is that all the three core cable for the 2 way switching lacked an earth (no it hadn't been cut off, just wasn't there), now this was 1.5mm cable, not old stranded imperial stuff. I thought 6242Y without a cpc had been discontinued when the 14th came out in the mid 60's?. Any idea on how this cable came to be?
P
Paul_C
That's why I say each case has to be assessed on its own merits. The main point I was trying to make was against the automatic response that we see all too often of "It's 40 years old, it needs replacing."
I think some cable without earth was still being made just into the metric era, intended for extensions and alterations to existing circuits. After all, if there was no e.c.c. provided from the distribution panel, there was not much point in having one in a cable used to add a lighting point by extending from an existing point or joint box.
I think some cable without earth was still being made just into the metric era, intended for extensions and alterations to existing circuits. After all, if there was no e.c.c. provided from the distribution panel, there was not much point in having one in a cable used to add a lighting point by extending from an existing point or joint box.
There is a lot of hysteria over cable this age. The pvc insulation shouldn't be anywhere near as dangerous as old rubber/vir/lead etc.
This doesn't alter the fact there are no earths in the lighting. Any metal fittings? You may want to consider this aspect for your own peace of mind.
You are changing the cu and not re-wiring the place as such, though you must ensure services are correctly bonded and the wiring is in a generally good state.
Are you certain the earth wires haven't been chopped off or hidden in the ceiling void? It was common in the 50s and early 60s for the lighting not to have earths. Interestingly enough, the old rubber twin cable for lighting very often had earth wire in it.
This doesn't alter the fact there are no earths in the lighting. Any metal fittings? You may want to consider this aspect for your own peace of mind.
You are changing the cu and not re-wiring the place as such, though you must ensure services are correctly bonded and the wiring is in a generally good state.
Are you certain the earth wires haven't been chopped off or hidden in the ceiling void? It was common in the 50s and early 60s for the lighting not to have earths. Interestingly enough, the old rubber twin cable for lighting very often had earth wire in it.
As you point out, for some years after 1966 it was common to extend an unearthed lighting circuit without introducing a new earth. Often the new cable had it's earth cut out - much to the annoyance of those 40 years later who are trying to do remedial work.
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