Location of gas boiler flue (with a twist)

[Kalico]

I've got a prime case of Gas Safe pointing to Building Regs and Building Regs pointing to Gas Safe. And a gas fitter (and me) stuck in the middle.

I have a domestic combi boiler, fitted donkey's years ago. The flue went out through our wall that is alongside the neighbour's garden. It vents over nothing in particular, very high up. They were fully in agreement to it being done and still happy.

We have come to replace the boiler and the plumber is concerned about venting over neighbour's garden. The neighbours still agree and happy to give it in writing.

Plumber is concerned it is against regulations. Fair enough, but which ones?

We called Gas Safe and they say only that Building Regs "Approved Document J" says that no flue can be put "within 600mm of a boundary". But that's not the wording in App Doc J. It says the flue terminal cannot be 600mm "From a surface or a boundary facing the terminal". The boundary is not "facing" the flue terminal, since in fact the boundary wall is behind the flue outlet (the flue comes through it).

Others have posted here about neighbour's boilers venting towards their properties, sometimes directly at windows and such like. Obviously dangerous and obviously what the Building Regs are there to prevent. But in this case it is not venting towards anything.

It seems we have found a problem in Approved Document J. At best, it is not clear. Gas Safe just refer back to Approved Doc J, saying it is a Building Regs issue.

Our local Building Regs (much friendlier than Gas Safe) agree that the App Doc J is unclear.

So we've got a situation where everything is safe, the neighbours are happy, but the plumber is (rightly) concerned that he will be doing something wrong.

What to do? What to do?

How can we get a definitive written answer/decision? Who is the Guru/God of these matters?

 

[Cgas]

Your engineer is correct. Your thread was long and I give up by paragraph 4. It can't be put back there. Not an issue 30 years ago but things change. Flue it vertically or relocate.

 

[Kalico]

OK, I'll see if I can edit the post down. I was just trying to be thorough.

Do you have whatever paperwork/regulation which states that this cannot be done? The regs do not say that it cannot be done. I'm happy to accept it, but either the regs allow it OR they are badly worded.

 

[Cgas]

The manufacturers instructions will state flue terminations not allowed.

 

[Kalico]

The manufacturers instructions will state flue terminations not allowed.

They don't state anything about boundaries more than the full Building Regs.

 

[Cgas]

OK what boiler you thinking of having fitted? Manufacturer will do

 

[^woody^]

The big question will be how to get someone/anyone either at Building Regs or (ideally) Gas Safe to say that it is ok to do it.

As it is a personal liability, many fitters are reluctant to to vere away from their comfort zone. And as the requirement can be interpreted differently, some fitters certify installations that others will not.

But the fact is, of you satisfy the requirement for no potential to obstruct the flue, then it can be fitted in that location no problem.

 

[Kalico]

OK what boiler you thinking of having fitted? Manufacturer will do

It's a Worcester or Ideal. What you thinking?

 

[Kalico]

As it is a personal liability, many fitters are reluctant to to vere away from their comfort zone. And as the requirement can be interpreted differently, some fitters certify installations that others will not.

But the fact is, of you satisfy the requirement for no potential to obstruct the flue, then it can be fitted in that location no problem.

Well it would be difficult to reach the flue, if nothing else. And the neighbours will happily sign an agreement that they will not obstruct the flue. Not sure what else I could do.

The problem is more that the fitter is unlikely to want to do the work, even though he knows it'll be safe (he fitted the original one 20 years ago) because he doesn't want to get into trouble with Gas Safe (who he is really complimentary about, as you can imagine).

Thank you for the can-do attitude though - it gives me a dose of hope.

 

[Cgas]

Point 6 (table 4)

Point 6

 

[Cgas]

neighbours will happily sign an agreement that they will not obstruct the flue.

And when they pass on/move out and someone else wants to move in/build an extension etc etc

Not sure what else I could do.

Relocate it or pay for it to be flued vertically. It's really not hard.

Thank you for the can-do attitude though - it gives me a dose of hope.

Hope of what exactly? If your so desperate to stick it there go on eBay and buy one off there. They'll chuck it at whatever wall you want it on and be done in 3 hours

 

[Kalico]

Thanks Cgas, that seems more helpful. Well, the middle doc at least, which says 600mm to a boundary line. However, is that just the manufacturer's booklet, not the actual regulations themselves? If so, they could well be guilty of misinterpreting them, when writing their installation guidelines.

It seems to me that there is either BS5440:1:2008 or Building Regs Approved Document J. Neither say anything about a boundary line that is not facing the flue terminal.

 

[Cgas]

Thanks Cgas, that seems more helpful. Well, the middle doc at least, which says 600mm to a boundary line. However, is that just the manufacturer's booklet, not the actual regulations themselves? If so, they could well be guilty of misinterpreting them, when writing their installation guidelines.

It seems to me that there is either BS5440:1:2008 or Building Regs Approved Document J. Neither say anything about a boundary line that is not facing the flue terminal.

How is the boundary not facing the terminal ? It's either running along side it or facing it ? Both of which are stated above. Can you not interprete instructions ? Manufacturers instructions take precedence.........I'm not gonna teach you to suck eggs it can't go there if you want it doing properly there's no 2 ways about it. Simple as.

 

[^woody^]

You can get manufacturers to relax part of their instructions

 

[Cgas]

On what grounds? The op wants to skimp and not pay for a vertical flue or relocate?