Oops, damn double incompetent posting again! 
loft help
- Thread starter lofthelp
- Start date
HOW COME YOUR TELLING ME TO GET A S.E BEFORE I CAUSE MORE DAMAGE WHEN THE BEAMS WHAT IVE REMOVED ARE ONLY TEMPS.
ALLS I ASK WAS IT SAFE TO REMOVE THESE BEAMS IN MY PICTURES AND YOU COME BACK WITH THIS IN BIG RED LETTERS IN 3D WHEN YOU HAVE STATED A DIFFRENT ANWSER IN --EMMA WARRENS --REPLY FOR THE SAME QUESTION.
TAKE A LOOK FOR YOURSELF YOU WROTE. WAIT FOR THIS.
IT SOUNDS LIKE PURLIN COLLAR OR TIE BEAMS AND IS THERE TO HELP COUNTER ROOF SPREAD.
ITCAN BE REMOVED PROVIDED YOU TAKE UP THE LOAD ELSEWHERE.
WHY DIDNT YOU JUST TELL ME THAT INSTEAD OF GOING ALL 3D.OR DO YOU JUST TELL PEOPLE DIFFRENT STORIES BECAUSE YOUR BOARD, IF SO YOUR BETTER OF ON FACEBOOK.
ALLS I ASK WAS IT SAFE TO REMOVE THESE BEAMS IN MY PICTURES AND YOU COME BACK WITH THIS IN BIG RED LETTERS IN 3D WHEN YOU HAVE STATED A DIFFRENT ANWSER IN --EMMA WARRENS --REPLY FOR THE SAME QUESTION.
TAKE A LOOK FOR YOURSELF YOU WROTE. WAIT FOR THIS.
IT SOUNDS LIKE PURLIN COLLAR OR TIE BEAMS AND IS THERE TO HELP COUNTER ROOF SPREAD.
ITCAN BE REMOVED PROVIDED YOU TAKE UP THE LOAD ELSEWHERE.
WHY DIDNT YOU JUST TELL ME THAT INSTEAD OF GOING ALL 3D.OR DO YOU JUST TELL PEOPLE DIFFRENT STORIES BECAUSE YOUR BOARD, IF SO YOUR BETTER OF ON FACEBOOK.
Hmm.. almost missed the second page of this thread.. lol
So far ive not seen any bad advice sent your way..
Right, lets address your actual query first.
Removal of the vertical central posts.. chances are they are their to remove some deflection in the ceiling joists. So removing them will mean your ceiling may crack.
The posts below the purlins could well be queen posts, they are a little odd.. but there is a really heavily strapped wall plate below your purlin line that these connect to which suggests they are for support or uplift bracing.
The wall is just wierd.. but would have been built for a reason even if that reason is now redundant (ie water tank support). Chances are the purlin now rests on this wall and removal would need to be replaced by some chunky timber post.
Now down to the changes your friend made and you have copied.
No idea what the timbers between the purlins were doing, they may have been for some old tank or to remove twist from a really long purlin.. without more info couldnt say.
The collar ties tho are there to stop roof spread so removing them you take a risk that in a gale or heavy snow your roof may spread a little.. yes you could get lucky and have some mild winters or be in a nice little valley that never gets windy days.. its not something that happens usually over night it will take years.. just be careful that insurance may be void if you do experience problems in a few years time.
Personally i dont rely on "good weather" in this country and never will.
So far ive not seen any bad advice sent your way..
Right, lets address your actual query first.
Removal of the vertical central posts.. chances are they are their to remove some deflection in the ceiling joists. So removing them will mean your ceiling may crack.
The posts below the purlins could well be queen posts, they are a little odd.. but there is a really heavily strapped wall plate below your purlin line that these connect to which suggests they are for support or uplift bracing.
The wall is just wierd.. but would have been built for a reason even if that reason is now redundant (ie water tank support). Chances are the purlin now rests on this wall and removal would need to be replaced by some chunky timber post.
Now down to the changes your friend made and you have copied.
No idea what the timbers between the purlins were doing, they may have been for some old tank or to remove twist from a really long purlin.. without more info couldnt say.
The collar ties tho are there to stop roof spread so removing them you take a risk that in a gale or heavy snow your roof may spread a little.. yes you could get lucky and have some mild winters or be in a nice little valley that never gets windy days.. its not something that happens usually over night it will take years.. just be careful that insurance may be void if you do experience problems in a few years time.
Personally i dont rely on "good weather" in this country and never will.
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP STATIC VERY USEFUL.
THE POST YOU SAID WHAT ARE UNDER THE PURLINS I don't THINK THEY ARE QUEEN POST BECAUSE THERE JUST NAILED TO ROOF BEAMS AND TO FLOOR JOIST AND I CAR'NT SEE NO STRONG WALL PLATE UNDER THEM.
I AM THINKING OF LEAVING THE SMALL POST IN NOW AND ADDING MORE TO BUILD MY STUD WALL BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE TO ME THERE ADDING EXTRA SUPPORT FOR FLOOR JOIST BELOW.
THE BIG TIMBER POSTS running DOWN THE MIDDLE THAT I ONLY WANT TO REMOVE NOW ARE JUST NAILED TO ROOF AND FLOOR JOIST TOO. W YOU SAID I MAY GET SOME CRACKS UNDERNEATH IF I REMOVE.
MAYBE BUY ADDING MORE OF THE LITTLE TIMBER POST ALONG BOTH SIDES COULD WELL STOP THE THE cracks underneath ?
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
AND ABOUT THE WALLS IN THE MIDDLE I THINK THERE JUST THERE FROM WHEN THE HOUSE WAS BUILT I THINK THEY MAY OF BEEN USED JUST TO REST THE MAIN BEAM ON TILL THEY GET IT IN PLACE.
I WILL KNOCK THEM DOWN AND PUT STRONG CHUNKY TIMBER IN WHEN I HAVE ADDED MORE SUPPORT.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ? THANKS STATIC
THE POST YOU SAID WHAT ARE UNDER THE PURLINS I don't THINK THEY ARE QUEEN POST BECAUSE THERE JUST NAILED TO ROOF BEAMS AND TO FLOOR JOIST AND I CAR'NT SEE NO STRONG WALL PLATE UNDER THEM.
I AM THINKING OF LEAVING THE SMALL POST IN NOW AND ADDING MORE TO BUILD MY STUD WALL BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE TO ME THERE ADDING EXTRA SUPPORT FOR FLOOR JOIST BELOW.
THE BIG TIMBER POSTS running DOWN THE MIDDLE THAT I ONLY WANT TO REMOVE NOW ARE JUST NAILED TO ROOF AND FLOOR JOIST TOO. W YOU SAID I MAY GET SOME CRACKS UNDERNEATH IF I REMOVE.
MAYBE BUY ADDING MORE OF THE LITTLE TIMBER POST ALONG BOTH SIDES COULD WELL STOP THE THE cracks underneath ?
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
AND ABOUT THE WALLS IN THE MIDDLE I THINK THERE JUST THERE FROM WHEN THE HOUSE WAS BUILT I THINK THEY MAY OF BEEN USED JUST TO REST THE MAIN BEAM ON TILL THEY GET IT IN PLACE.
I WILL KNOCK THEM DOWN AND PUT STRONG CHUNKY TIMBER IN WHEN I HAVE ADDED MORE SUPPORT.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ? THANKS STATIC
Most roofs are made up with timbers "just nailed together"
Anyways, you need to stiffen up the ceiling joists to remove deflection issues, so either add sister joists besides the existing that can manage the span between supporting walls or leave the vertical posts in place..
Yep just seen that the beam below the purlin is supporting the ceiling joists on hangers, then may go into that wierd little brick pier.. which i assume is mirrored on the other side of the loft..
All looks a little odd.. like someone tried to do a conversion of the loft and made a floating floor .. are the original ceiling joists below the ones shown?
Also you stated this was all for loft storage.. sounds more like your converting the loft than just simply putting in some planks to store the wifes winter clothes...
BTW very very very rarely do you build a temporary wall just to rest something on for 10mins while you get it into place.. those walls are there for a reason and a perminant one.
pps. Caps locks button is on the left hand side of the keyboard near the A key..
Anyways, you need to stiffen up the ceiling joists to remove deflection issues, so either add sister joists besides the existing that can manage the span between supporting walls or leave the vertical posts in place..
Yep just seen that the beam below the purlin is supporting the ceiling joists on hangers, then may go into that wierd little brick pier.. which i assume is mirrored on the other side of the loft..
All looks a little odd.. like someone tried to do a conversion of the loft and made a floating floor .. are the original ceiling joists below the ones shown?
Also you stated this was all for loft storage.. sounds more like your converting the loft than just simply putting in some planks to store the wifes winter clothes...
BTW very very very rarely do you build a temporary wall just to rest something on for 10mins while you get it into place.. those walls are there for a reason and a perminant one.
pps. Caps locks button is on the left hand side of the keyboard near the A key..
the floor is floating and not resting on the joist and i am just making it for the kids to play up there out the way because theve got more toys then toys r us in the house. can you tell me where you would put them extra support beams if i remove the centre beams.
take a look at the picture and see my ruff drawing what im planing on doing on both sides will it hold the floor joist in place and make them stronger if i remove the middle beams .
take a look at the picture and see my ruff drawing what im planing on doing on both sides will it hold the floor joist in place and make them stronger if i remove the middle beams .
Hmm.. dang kids..
Without seeing the place i cant guess where your supporting walls are.. only ones i know of are the external walls.. now the original ceiling joists would have been designed to span between the supporting walls (so assuming the external walls) with a mid support from the post..
Ceiling binders can be used to reduce this deflection (cross spanning joist spanning between gable ends)..
How is your floating floor supported? Those chunky support timbers below the purlins, what are they bearing onto (and dont tell me its the original ceiling joists pls)
You also should be considering what to do about your removed collars
Without seeing the place i cant guess where your supporting walls are.. only ones i know of are the external walls.. now the original ceiling joists would have been designed to span between the supporting walls (so assuming the external walls) with a mid support from the post..
Ceiling binders can be used to reduce this deflection (cross spanning joist spanning between gable ends)..
How is your floating floor supported? Those chunky support timbers below the purlins, what are they bearing onto (and dont tell me its the original ceiling joists pls)
You also should be considering what to do about your removed collars
the chunky beams under the perlins are resting on 3x2 timber verticle the lenth of the house and also walls are underneath most off the way along.
i am laying chipboard behind the purlins screwed down to origanal beams
this is the floor floating there is alot of stuff up there now which is heavy and ive had about 8 people up there at the same time so i think the floor is safe.
do you mean by sister support puting beams inbetween original ones
dont worry about that vertical one its just spare timber laying around
i am puting plaster board up on the top to where collars have been removed.
i am laying chipboard behind the purlins screwed down to origanal beams
this is the floor floating there is alot of stuff up there now which is heavy and ive had about 8 people up there at the same time so i think the floor is safe.
do you mean by sister support puting beams inbetween original ones
dont worry about that vertical one its just spare timber laying around
i am puting plaster board up on the top to where collars have been removed.
Most of the way along? Well so long as the new beam actually bears into something solid at each end and not just onto a stud wall below
Huh.. more storage area? remember its still a loft that needs ventilation
Probably not the wisest place to have a party!..
I said that before i knew you had a floating floor over it, so youve pretty much sistered the joists.. thus taken any new loft loadings elsewhere.. the ceiling joists now just keep the ceiling from falling down and provide some lateral tying to the roof.. (unless your new floor just sits straight back down on the old ceiling joists in which case youve added to the load they have to take)
So putting the collars back is an option?.. can always have them as features.. again remember to ventilate the voids or yours gonna get condensation in mid summer/winter..
i will be geting two windows fitted soon so ventilation should be ok.
your help has been great. must get back to work now and start on layin that chipboard or the mrs will say is that all youve done .you no what i mean.
keep help and ideas coming, this is great.
your help has been great. must get back to work now and start on layin that chipboard or the mrs will say is that all youve done .you no what i mean.
keep help and ideas coming, this is great.
Your loft will be gaining its ventillation via the gap between the rafters. By sealing this up with chipboard or plasterboard you will stifle the air flow. Adding a roof window will make no difference to the build up of moisture that will occur between the rafters unless you have breathable membrane. Using the trickle vents will help dispel moisture though.
By the way, thanks for heeding my advice.
Static is an S.E. and a good un.
Well hopefully hes listening to all the advice, from us both Noseall..
But to add about them brick piers i would leave them be, you will struggle to replace them if they are as suspected load bearing.. if you really really need the space then cut them back a little on the end but otherwise leave them where they are..
And put back the collar ties..
You might want to advice your "mate" to do the same in his loft.. (then hide his saw)
But to add about them brick piers i would leave them be, you will struggle to replace them if they are as suspected load bearing.. if you really really need the space then cut them back a little on the end but otherwise leave them where they are..
And put back the collar ties..
You might want to advice your "mate" to do the same in his loft.. (then hide his saw)
the wall is staying, just going to plaster around it for a feature.
but them collar ties are going. reason just had a builder around and he siad its completley safe because the purlins our taking most of the wait and told me to put 2x2 inbetween rafters at the
top.
plus when plaster board is up it will be even stronger.
by the way this builder is not bob the builder but he sure knows what he's talking about.
thanks boys
but them collar ties are going. reason just had a builder around and he siad its completley safe because the purlins our taking most of the wait and told me to put 2x2 inbetween rafters at the
top.
plus when plaster board is up it will be even stronger.
by the way this builder is not bob the builder but he sure knows what he's talking about.
thanks boys
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