Looking for some advice - what can I and can I not do?

[mushymat]

Hi All,

I have a garage which due to a bunch of boring reasons has been wired by an idiot, and most of the wiring his hidden behind plasterboard.

My garage is split into two (just a partition wall down the middle), but both sides include 3 overhead lights, and 5 plug sockets.....although I would like to wire in an additional 2 light and two sockets.

My plan is cut/discard all existing cables and rewire the whole lot. It has direct power going into what looks like a standard main switch box.

Looks like this one in fact.
https://www.electricaldirect.co.uk/...jbfH1ITHc9HXbswO-fhoC14QQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

And everything comes off from that.

Now I know rules and regulations are constantly changing - but as a non qualified, home owner am I allowed to rewire all the plugs and lights, or is this something I need to get a pro into do??

My plan is external cabling, simply pined to the walls, some of it can run up into the loft space and straight back down where needed.

Any thoughts, Id love to hear them!

 

[AndyPRK]

what's wrong with the current wiring, nicely behind plaster board? that is so bad you want to stop using it?

 

[flameport]

but as a non qualified, home owner am I allowed to rewire all the plugs and lights,

Provided it's done properly, you can do all of it yourself.

 

[garmcqui]

Provided it's done properly, you can do all of it yourself.

Couldn’t it be an issue when he comes to sell the house though?

 

[JohnW2]

Couldn’t it be an issue when he comes to sell the house though?

Anything can be an issue for troublesome house buyers (particularly if they think they can use it to demand a price reduction), but the sort of buyer who would quibble about that sort of thing is probably a buyer one coiulddo without. As for price, I always advise that a seller says that the asking price takes into account everything they know about the property (i.e. "as is") and that includes knowledge of who was responsible for the electrics! The only important thing is to tell the truth.

In fact, it's usually the solicitors/conveyancers, rather than the buyers, who try to make the fuss (i.e. make more money), and they get told the same thing about the price!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

There are two laws, health and safety at work act, and Part P, in the main since not a work place not really worried too much about the first, and Part P depends on where you live, but in the main unless you fit a new consumer unit, work in the bathroom, and in Wales also kitchen and garden you can do most things. As with many laws the act is a frame work and the law evolves as court cases are fought, but most court cases are about people claiming to be scheme members when they are not, or doing some thing which has killed some one. So you are unlikely to fall foul of the law.

The Part P act is worded that poorly it is hard to say exactly what you can do, but if what you do is safe, it is unlikely to cause a problem, BS7671 is all about what is considered as safe, and it is not law, but can be used in a court of law. So if BS6771 says all sockets must be RCD protected and you don't protect all sockets with a RCD you would be considered as negligent. Unless you could give good reasons, and it costs too much is not a good reason.

When we do any electrical work we have to complete a minor works or installation certificate, what this does is ensure you have gone through the inspection and testing prompting you do do tests, even if after it is put in the bin, going through the testing means your unlikely to miss something which causes a danger.

There may be items you can't test, I am not saying every DIY guy should buy £400 worth of test equipment, but you do need to understand and assess the risk. So for example if you can't measure the prospective short circuit current, if you can say well it comes from house consumer unit so that has 10kA MCB's and I have 10kA MCB's so if house is OK so must my garage be OK. So you again may not be able to measure an earth loop impedance less than 1.5Ω, but if your plug in tester has a LED which shows 1.5Ω or better that's in real terms good enough. Have a look at a Martindale EZ150 tester, just over £40 and in real terms good enough.

The forms can be down loaded from the IET web site, and they come with some help. If you can show you did all within your power to ensure it was safe, a court is unlikely to blame you if it all goes wrong. However if everything forward and trust to the lord, well the lord will likely let you down.

 

[JohnW2]

... in the main unless you fit a new consumer unit, work in the bathroom, and in Wales also kitchen and garden you can do most things. ...

I think that's a bit misleading, since, as you know, a DIYer can legally undertake any electrical work (including the things you mention), even in Wales, provided that they can do so safely (i.e. comply with Part P of the Building Regulations). The things you mention are those which have to be 'notified' to the local authority (for a price), no matter who undertakes the work - and, although that will often not be a cost-effective approach, a DIYer can do it just as much as can anyone else.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Notch7]

I guess a DIYer wouldnt be able to do the testing?

 

[JohnW2]

I guess a DIYer wouldnt be able to do the testing?

Indeed, very few would have the necessary equipment, even if they had the knowledge and ability to use it and interpret the results. However, that is true of almost any significant electrical work, since most should be followed by testing, not all of which most DIYers would be able to do. That doesn't alter the fact that anyone can, legally speaking, do any electrical work that they are 'competent' to do safely, even if someone else has to do the necessary testing (which will often be what happens if a DIYer undertakes notifiable work).

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I think that's a bit misleading, since, as you know, a DIYer can legally undertake any electrical work (including the things you mention), even in Wales, provided that they can do so safely (i.e. comply with Part P of the Building Regulations). The things you mention are those which have to be 'notified' to the local authority (for a price), no matter who undertakes the work - and, although that will often not be a cost-effective approach, a DIYer can do it just as much as can anyone else.

Kind Regards, John

To do notifiable work the person overseeing the work needs be satisfied that worker has the skill. Even I had to persuade the LABC inspector that I had the skill, which in my case was reasonably easy as I have written qualifications. However if the inspector thinks you don't have the skill to do all of the work, he can require one to employ a specialise to do the tasks he feels you don't have the skill to safely complete.

 

[JohnW2]

To do notifiable work the person overseeing the work needs be satisfied that worker has the skill. Even I had to persuade the LABC inspector that I had the skill, which in my case was reasonably easy as I have written qualifications. However if the inspector thinks you don't have the skill to do all of the work, he can require one to employ a specialise to do the tasks he feels you don't have the skill to safely complete.

Well, yes, as I said, anyone can legally do any electrical work "provided that they can do so safely".

As for the rest of what you say, I can't say much, since I'm no lawyer, but it seems rather odd a concept that one could be 'prevented' from doing something because someone "thinks you don't have the skill" - that's a bit like failing someone in a driving test before it starts, because the examiner "thinks that they won't drive safely"! I can understand an inspector not accepting work which has not been done satisfactorily, but that's very different from "thinking that it won't be done satisfactorily".

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Well, yes, as I said, anyone can legally do any electrical work "provided that they can do so safely".

As for the rest of what you say, I can't say much, since I'm no lawyer, but it seems rather odd a concept that one could be 'prevented' from doing something because someone "thinks you don't have the skill" - that's a bit like failing someone in a driving test before it starts, because the examiner "thinks that they won't drive safely"! I can understand an inspector not accepting work which has not been done satisfactorily, but that's very different from "thinking that it won't be done satisfactorily".

Kind Regards, John

Reading the guide, which of course is not the law its self, it says the LABC takes on the responsibility for site safety when they accept the application, to my mine you can't do that unless you can have the power to say yay or nay to proposed actions.

In my case the inspector raised no objections to my doing the installation, but wanted me to employ some one else to do the inspecting and testing which is clearly part of the job, after some discussion he relented and said I could do the inspection and testing but he would reserve the right to reject it if he did not like the results.

I seem to remember my son did most of the arguing, saying if he was doing to get some one to test our work, he would need to be higher qualified than me, at which the inspector backed down, to be fair at that time Part P was quite new, and the inspector knew very little about electrical installation, and think they wanted to shift the responsibility to some one else to take the blame should I get it wrong.

And yes you can fail the driving test before it starts, if you fail to read the number plate then the test is aborted, he can also abort the test if he feels you don't have the mental or physical ability, or the vehicle your taking the test in is unsuitable in some way, I do see your point that as long as the installation is not made live then you should be allowed to do work then he can decide if it can be made live, so with a self build house you can do all the electrical work including the inspection and testing then the LABC inspector will make a judgement as to if he will allow the DNO to connect the tails. However with a home which already has power, and is occupied, he has a problem that lights, and fridge/freezer are required so having the DNO disconnect the supply and reconnect after he is satisfied the installation is to the required standard would not be easy. It would make the property uninhabitable but I suppose he could do just that, he does have the power, personally I would prefer it if he says no I am not allowing you to do that, than him say do it again and do it properly and live in a hotel until you have done it properly.

It does however raise the question of what happens when a third party does the inspecting and testing as now permitted in England, can that electrical firm if it deems you installation is dangerous get the supply removed until it is put right? I think in real terms it would not happen, it would be if you want to sleep here tonight your going to have to let me do this for you. In the same way as the Queen has the ability to devolve parliament, but the threat is all that is required, no prime minister would ever allow it to reach that stage, he would call an election himself, and we would likely be unaware the threat was ever used.

We have seen the councils social services been taken to court because they allowed something to happen without stepping in, however to date not seen the councils building control being taken to court, although the floods in Ruthin did get close to a court case for not picking up the houses were built a meter too low, it was all settled out of court. I suspect some one would need to die, before there would be a court case, clearly the council would not want people taking them to court because they had not done their job, as if successful it could open the flood gates.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It does however raise the question of what happens when a third party does the inspecting and testing as now permitted in England, can that electrical firm if it deems you installation is dangerous get the supply removed until it is put right? I think in real terms it would not happen,

They are supposed to oversee or supervise the work - not just come in when it is finished - so, thoretically, there will be no need to condemn it.

 

[JohnW2]

In my case the inspector raised no objections to my doing the installation, but wanted me to employ some one else to do the inspecting and testing which is clearly part of the job ...

That's really rather different ...

... in response to the OP's question, this discussion is about what a DIYer can do, and I thought we have agreed that the great majority of DIYer's would not be equipped (and may not have the knowledge/skill) to undertake the required testing - such that that testing, if done, will have to be undertaken by some third party. As we know, in the case of DIY non-notifiable work, the testing (at least, 'adequate testing') probably does not often get done, but in the case of notifiable work, someone (with adequate equipment and skill/knowledge) has to do it. That's different from an inspector prohibiting someone from actually doing the installation work.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

what's wrong with the current wiring, nicely behind plaster board? that is so bad you want to stop using it?