Low traffic neighbourhood reduces congestion - not

[diy_fun_uk]

its basic queuing theory. I don't know why it's so hard for the local government to get their heads around. Lots of people need to drive for work. We aren't all lucky enough to work from home or cycle to the office. If you make it hard, they wont stop driving, it's not a choice. it just gets hard.

Why should a road that one person lives on be declared a traffic free zone at the expense of another road where someone else lives?

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, however regardless of the rationale behind various schemes and strategies we now see deployed by local councils and government, one of the biggest hurdles they face is changing the mindset of millions of drivers who have lived the majority of their life with the convenience of having a car/vehicle.

I'm one of those people.

I've said similar before in related threads. Whether work or personal life, I'm sure we can all reel off lots of examples where using our own transport vs public transport wins hands down each and every time. For a whole multitude of reasons. This is the challenge they face. Essentially convincing the (driving) public to adjust their daily lives to ways that are usually less convenient.

In the long run they'll likely succeed. How? By making personal vehicle ownership and use more and more expensive and arduous.

 

[ajohn]

I'm one of those people.

Me too but I'm retired and avoid peak periods. B'ham is pretty good for people who can do that. If I have to drive then recent case, 15~20min turned into more like 45. I could have probably used 3 buses. Even longer.

Fetch a major shop via public transport? Are you kidding? There are also peak out shopping periods. In some areas that can introduce a long delay. I know of one area where I can get there in ~15min but at times it will take me longer to get off the car park. Another just a bit further away and bigger - no problem but that traffic causes the other to block up when trying to get out. They didn't link them up. The problem one is a lot older with an early single shop site between it and the new one.

A world has been created that we can't use any more. Answer to one aspect electric cars.

The other point is the cost of owning a car. Other than fuel it's rather constant even when it's not in use.

My wife does some shopping from the house by foot. I eventually persuaded her to use a trolley but sometimes she still doesn't. She also shops via bus or train - sort of retail therapy. The things bought are generally manageable. Sometimes not and I tell her off as I could have taken her by car. She likes to browse. Me I go get what I want.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

A world has been created that we can't use any more.

Yes, built on decades of the vehicle being central to the objectives of building strategy. Now they're trying to unpick this and shoehorn changes in that often don't work or, as per this thread, create more issues than they were designed to resolve.

 

[motorbiking]

Stand back and ask yourself why do they need to do it? Why make people's lives miserable. Cars are getting cleaner, safer and quieter. Why do we need to hate personal transport?

 

[Brigadier]

Stand back and ask yourself why do they need to do it? Why make people's lives miserable. Cars are getting cleaner, safer and quieter. Why do we need to hate personal transport?

All well and good, if you don't mind tarmaccing more of the country, then paying for its ongoing maintenance and policing.
The current network is already beyond capacity, for lengthening periods of each day.

That's without considering the energy used, the pointlessness of a-not-negligible proportion of journeys, the pollution from squillions of tiny particles of tyre rubber...............


As I've posted previous, I'd have a national network of cycle-only commuter infrastructure, to make shorter and not-so-short cycling a lot more pleasant and accessible.

 

[motorbiking]

No thats my point. It's like trying to stop water flowing down hill with a net. There is no need to make it better, just don't make it worse. If it's quicker for me to go from A - B by train because the train is better - great. Just don't make it, so I have to because you blocked the road.
Same for bikes. Just blocking up roads, forcing people to drive further is nuts.

 

[motorbiking]

, I'd have a national network of cycle-only commuter infrastructure, to make shorter and not-so-short cycling a lot more pleasant and accessible.

its a good idea, The fatties could use e-bikes.

But to be fair if you look at London we already have this. A lot of cycle lanes do however make the road more dangerous for motorcyclists as traffic traveling in opposite directions are brought closer together.

But nobody cares, they are only delivering lunch to one of the above

 

[Brigadier]

But to be fair if you look at London we already have this.

That's not what I'm proposing, at all.

Fook knows how it would be enacted in practice (viz-a-viz compulsory purchase of the required land etc), but......

..I've often thought it would be great if the UK would build a network of properly-tarmacced / drained / lit cycle routes, completely separated from the other roads, solely for the use of cyclists to commute on.
It would be a large investment at first, but wear would be practically nil, so maintenance would be similarly so, and the benefits in health, mood, and reduction in wear on the "car" roads would be huge.

Eventually though, it might be more achievable to phase out all private motorised transport, build a decent hub-to-hub network for public transport (for the infirm, and for longer distances), and use the current road network for cycles and pedestrians only.

 

[ajohn]

Why do we need to hate personal transport?

increasing population and more and more congestion. There is a need to consider population over a lot of years.

Concentrations of jobs has an aspect as well.

 

[motorbiking]

So not this sort of thing

based on the cycle paths round my way - its not wear that causes the issues needing repair its seasonal weather and the damage from ice - rain - sun.

Of course no matter how fit you are - it's not practical to commute 60 miles each way to work by bike and of course lightly used dedicated infrastructure has capacity problems. Bus lanes on motorways etc.

there are sooo many options to reduce road congestion.
- Public sector/office workers could work 7AM to 3PM or 11AM - 7PM to extend commuter time.
- Stop all the BS about coming in the office 3 days a week.
- As telecommuting technology improves people will need to drive less and less.

 

[Brigadier]

So not this sort of thing

based on the cycle paths round my way - its not wear that causes the issues needing repair its seasonal weather and the damage from ice - rain - sun.

Of course no matter how fit you are - it's not practical to commute 60 miles each way to work by bike and of course lightly used dedicated infrastructure has capacity problems. Bus lanes on motorways etc.

there are sooo many options to reduce road congestion.
- Public sector/office workers could work 7AM to 3PM or 11AM - 7PM to extend commuter time.
- Stop all the BS about coming in the office 3 days a week.
- As telecommuting technology improves people will need to drive less and less.