Magnaclean failed me, boiler got blocked so what's next?

[ianmcd]

Every boiler has poor design issues. But this hose is really easy to remove and clean at service. I always make sure i don't squeeze it before i have got the bottom connection off. I have quite a few that i service but only a couple have the problem with the hoses and both of these systems have high levels of iron oxide in them. the ones with very clean systems and inhibitored are no trouble

So you dont change the hoses as a pair ?

 

[snb]

So you dont change the hoses as a pair ?

the rear hose doesn't seem to get very much attached to it on the boilers where i have the problem. It seems to be the front hose that the debris attaches itself to more. There must be something to do with the higher temperature .

 

[ianmcd]

the rear hose doesn't seem to get very much attached to it on the boilers where i have the problem. It seems to be the front hose that the debris attaches itself to more. There must be something to do with the higher temperature .

Trust me mate , always change as a pair, when they burst they cause so much damage

 

[DavidLewis]

Every boiler has poor design issues. But this hose is really easy to remove and clean at service. I always make sure i don't squeeze it before i have got the bottom connection off. I have quite a few that i service but only a couple have the problem with the hoses and both of these systems have high levels of iron oxide in them. the ones with very clean systems and inhibitored are no trouble

I'm another person with a Viessmann Vitodens 100 (system boiler, not combi) who suffers from black magnetic flakes.

The boiler was fitted at the same time as all new radiators, plastic pipes, plenty of inhibitor, and a filter. The system water runs clear.

The hoses were replaced the first time the boiler blocked with flakes (after a couple of years, I think). New hoses haven't made any difference, and now the hoses need removing every year or two to be cleaned out and the flakes flushed out of the boiler. The hoses seem to catch the flakes much more effectively than the Spirotrap.

All a bit of a nuisance really. Shame there's no fix, or apparently acknowledgement of the problem by Viessmann. I won't be having another!

 

[Mottie]

the rear hose doesn't seem to get very much attached to it on the boilers where i have the problem. It seems to be the front hose that the debris attaches itself to more. There must be something to do with the higher temperature .

Top rad hoses fail more on cars compared to bottom ones. That's temperature related.

 

[DP]

Had a veismann combi boiler fit 3 years ago along with a magnaclean 2 pro and kept up the servicing.

At the weekend the boiler failed due to the smaller heat exchanger being blocked with small shards of magnetic material causing an F2 Burner fault.

Despite it not really being a Boiler Issue and technically not covered by the warranty the Veismann engineer was great, replaced the faulty part, flushed boiler and got me up and running.

On checking the magnaclean there was a small thin film of crud on the magnet but not a single bit of magnetite shard despite the core being magnetic.
In fact each time it has been checked its looked pretty clean which leads me to believe its simply not working.

Clearly I need to flush the system first and put inhibitor in but why didn't the magnaclean work?
Already thinking of replacing all radiators to ensure a clean system but is this necessary.

Is there some better filter that will catch these larger bits of magnetite ?
Fernox TF1 is well rated but to me it looks like an almost identical design so sceptical?
Spirotech MB3 looks promising but unsure.


All help appreciated

Megnaclean as name suggests is magnetic cleaner. I find the filter to be very good at catching magnetic particles. If you have plastic pipe, the particulate matter is different (like tea leaves) for which there is a different Addey filter- magnetic as well as particulate filter. I have not come across another filter that comes close to catching the muck like Addey filter does but that is not much of a statement as I have not tested every filter that is available. There are minuses for the brand but for me the pluses win every time.

Obviously if the muck is not sticking to the magnet, it is not magnetic but nevertheless fouls the plate heat exchanger. Other brands would fare worst. Replaced a boiler that comes with a filter- chose to go with model that is offered minus that filter- instead fitted megnaclean for better results

A few years ago fitted a Megnaclean to a system where at least one radiator was cold in the middle. Megnaclean cleared that radiator- use to be almost full every time it was opened

 

[BlueLoo]

Interesting thread.
I've no filter on my boiler and have just serviced my plumbing, including removing and flushing the rads.
I was shocked at the crud that came out (i replumbed the system to help stop this in the future)

I found no crud in the plastic Piping but the copper was very furred up.

The Addy recommendation is noted.

 

[Dr911t]

I'm another person with a Viessmann Vitodens 100 (system boiler, not combi) who suffers from black magnetic flakes.

The boiler was fitted at the same time as all new radiators, plastic pipes, plenty of inhibitor, and a filter. The system water runs clear.

The hoses were replaced the first time the boiler blocked with flakes (after a couple of years, I think). New hoses haven't made any difference, and now the hoses need removing every year or two to be cleaned out and the flakes flushed out of the boiler. The hoses seem to catch the flakes much more effectively than the Spirotrap.

All a bit of a nuisance really. Shame there's no fix, or apparently acknowledgement of the problem by Viessmann. I won't be having another!

Wow that's crazy.... what's causing this? oxygen entering from the hoses?
What kind of filter do you have?
How does the boiler behave for you when the hoses are clogged up? Temp on the boiler goes up 'too high', short cycles on lower heating settings (<4) and low circulation through the central heating system?

 

[Dr911t]

Megnaclean as name suggests is magnetic cleaner. I find the filter to be very good at catching magnetic particles. If you have plastic pipe, the particulate matter is different (like tea leaves) for which there is a different Addey filter- magnetic as well as particulate filter. I have not come across another filter that comes close to catching the muck like Addey filter does but that is not much of a statement as I have not tested every filter that is available. There are minuses for the brand but for me the pluses win every time.

Obviously if the muck is not sticking to the magnet, it is not magnetic but nevertheless fouls the plate heat exchanger. Other brands would fare worst. Replaced a boiler that comes with a filter- chose to go with model that is offered minus that filter- instead fitted megnaclean for better results

A few years ago fitted a Megnaclean to a system where at least one radiator was cold in the middle. Megnaclean cleared that radiator- use to be almost full every time it was opened

Do you know which exact Adey filter version you are refering to that also traps particular matter? I tried and most of the flakes and dirt in my system were not magnetic. Not much metal except stainless steel exchanger, copper pipes, brass manifold and PERT-AL oxygen resistant plastic floor heating pipes.

 

[JohnD]

the flakes are odd, but surely they come from the steel radiators? I have seen them, sharp and shiny black, and they are magnetic. in my case it was when a non-barrier pipe had been used. There are no rubber hoses in my boiler.

I have an older Spirotech with a vortex trap that catches non-magnetic particles. I think their current models still have that.

 

[DavidLewis]

Wow that's crazy.... what's causing this? oxygen entering from the hoses?
What kind of filter do you have?
How does the boiler behave for you when the hoses are clogged up? Temp on the boiler goes up 'too high', short cycles on lower heating settings (<4) and low circulation through the central heating system?

I have no idea what causes it. Mine's a sealed system, with JG pex barrier pipe. The fact that the "flakes" (actually, they're more like crushed seashells) are black and magnetic means they must be iron, which must come from the radiators. But why they happen at all, and particularly why they line the inside of the rubber hoses ("crunchy hose syndrome") is a mystery to me.

My filter is a Spirotrap MB3. It does catch some flakes, but nowhere near as much as accumulates in the boiler and sticks to the inside of the rubber hoses. The system water is clear.

When clogged, the symptom I notice is the house taking longer to heat up in the morning. This is because the boiler is cycling to stop flow temperature exceeding setpoint, presumably because flow rate is so restricted.

 

[Dr911t]

I have no idea what causes it. Mine's a sealed system, with JG pex barrier pipe. The fact that the "flakes" (actually, they're more like crushed seashells) are black and magnetic means they must be iron, which must come from the radiators. But why they happen at all, and particularly why they line the inside of the rubber hoses ("crunchy hose syndrome") is a mystery to me.

My filter is a Spirotrap MB3. It does catch some flakes, but nowhere near as much as accumulates in the boiler and sticks to the inside of the rubber hoses. The system water is clear.

When clogged, the symptom I notice is the house taking longer to heat up in the morning. This is because the boiler is cycling to stop flow temperature exceeding setpoint, presumably because flow rate is so restricted.

Do you have an external pump to circulate water around your central heating radiators or just use the internal circulation pump?
Do you know what your flow rate is?

 

[DavidLewis]

Do you have an external pump to circulate water around your central heating radiators or just use the internal circulation pump?
Do you know what your flow rate is?

It's a system boiler, so internal pump. It's set at the lowest pump speed, so that return temperatures are low for maximum condensing operation.