Menvier TS400 probs...

[lvsystems]

Yes it mentions engaging walk test. I am not arguing with that but is that not part of systematically checking the system to find exactly what is at fault. E.g. you go through and disable each tamper bell tamper aux tamper until you find the problem. Therefore if you follow the flow chart with those tampers linked out you can then prove or disprove the battery.
And if I am wrong then I will gladly say so, I hope your man enough to do the same.

 

[breezer]

no. but i will say this

you will be expecting me to say that so if there is a powercut tha alarm carries on working, then you will say thats what most people think.

of course i know why the battery is there, but to behonest about it, i think you are trying to belittle me. (i think thats the word)

this is a forum to help and debate, not slag each other off

 

[joe-90]

Let me make this simple for you both. You both suggested to the original poster that he has a battery that has gone 'short circuit' and is dragging the voltage down to a point where the panel cannot operate effectively.

You then told him that he must get a NEW battery to test it.

I have simply pointed out that all he has to do to test the battery is to remove it from the system and retry the panel.

If his tamper fault clears then I agree the battery has gone and is probably all hot and distorted. if it doesn't - then it won't cure his problem.

In my 20 year experience his most likely problem is the bellbox tamper switch.

Gedditt yet?

 

[lvsystems]

I don't think the bellbox has got wet or anything. As far as i'm aware the rain hasn't affected anything - the problem seems to have purely stemmed from the powercut.

After removing the front cover on the panel I noticed that the battery had a sticker on it stating it was installed in 1994 (probably when the alarm was put in too) so i'm guessing after 13 years it is probably well and truly knackered!

Well your 20 years experience will tell you a battery marked 1994 is well and truly f***ed.

 

[joe-90]

I don't think the bellbox has got wet or anything. As far as i'm aware the rain hasn't affected anything - the problem seems to have purely stemmed from the powercut.

After removing the front cover on the panel I noticed that the battery had a sticker on it stating it was installed in 1994 (probably when the alarm was put in too) so i'm guessing after 13 years it is probably well and truly knackered!

Well your 20 years experience will tell you a battery marked 1994 is well and truly f***ed.

Funny you should say that as I tested a 'Kobe' battery today that was still in fine fettle after 18 years. Those Japs make good stuff.

 

[bongos]

Seem to be some slightly conflicting diagnoses here.

It does seem very coincidental for a bellbox tamper to have coincided with a long power cut on a very old battery but I know very little about alarms which is why I cam on here for advice!

I suppose the bast way to solve this arguement is for me to actually get hold of a new battery and try and reset the panel with the old one disconnected first!

 

[breezer]

its just some one trying to belittle some one else.

get a new battery

 

[bongos]

Ok the results are in...

Turned off mains, outside bellbox sounded. Removed old battery and put in a new one. Outside bellbox silent, internal chime sounded. Turned mains back on.

Put on panel cover and reset and now the alarm is working fine.

Cheers for your help people, much appreciated!

 

[breezer]

glad you are now happy and sorted, dont forget to write the date on your new battery (or bookmark this post)

 

[jagcommander]

I am having the same problem as bongos but my tamper alarm goes off all bl#+**dy night !! I have removed the battery with no change. Yet to look at the siren box (what would I be looking for ?).

Where can I get a new battery?

Bearing in mind bongo's problems started with a power cut and my tamper alarm goes off mainly at night, could it be caused by power fluctuations? If so, is it worth fitting a voltage regulater between the mains supply and the panal?

 

[bernardgreen]

Whether the system can operate safely without the battery connected depends on whether the battery is being used in float mode or in standby mode.

If standby then the system will (should) operate normally without the battery present. The charger circuit may indicate failed/missing battery.

If float then the system may fail to operate properly when the battery is not connected.

In standby the battery does nothing other accept a slow trickle charge from the system until the supply fails at which point the battery takes over the supply of power to the system.

In float mode the battery supplies power at all times while being continuous topped up by the power supply.

Float mode is best where the load ( in amps ) is not constant as the battery can supply varying amperage while the power supply is designed to provide slightly more than the average load continuously. Using a standby in this mode means the power supply has to work over the entire amp range from the lowest to the highest while still regulating the voltage.

 

[jagcommander]

Boy thjat was quick !! Thank you. I have tested the battery on a multimeter and that looks fine. I have taken the cover off the siren box (with the alarm right in my ears !) and brushed out 8 years of accumlated spiders/dust/crap etc. I did not/could not identify the tamper switch so left it with just a brush out.

Looking at your advice, can I/how do I switch the battery from standby to float if my actions so far do not work.

thanks so far

 

[bernardgreen]

Looking at your advice, can I/how do I switch the battery from standby to float if my actions so far do not work.
thanks so far

You cannot change the mode. The mode is decided at the design stage.

I mentioned the two modes to clarify that some systems will work without the battery present while others may not operate properly if the battery is missing or failed. Probably added more confusion than good.

Batteries tested with a multimeter may appear to be "good" as the voltage shows as 12 or above. In fact a duff battery can show a good voltage when not supplying any current ( multi-meters take virtually no current ). The more informative test is to connect a 12 volt bulb of about 12 watts to the battery and measure the voltage when the battery is supplying the one amp needed by the bulb.

 

[jagcommander]

OK thanks Bernard. Your comments about Battery mode seemed to clear up the earlier arguments about whether the system could work with one or not. I will try the battery again.

Do you know anything about the tamper switch inside the siren box by any chance?

 

[bernardgreen]

Do you know anything about the tamper switch inside the siren box by any chance?

It is a switch that operates when the cover is removed or the box is taken of the wall. Depending on make there are many ways the switch is fitted. There will be a lever or a spring that presses onto the cover and operates a switch. I have seen small button switches on the PCB with a coiled spring that the cover presses down onto the switch and a lever on a hinged micro-switch where the cover pressed the lever and the wall ( through a hole in the box ) kept the micro switch in place.

Not a good idea to put exact details on a public forum.