Mixer tap showers - advice required

[Softus]

From (my sample of 1) MI :

"Not covered by this guarantee - Damage or defects arising from incorrect installation"

I would argue that failure to be installed by a qualified electrician semantically means that it is prima facie an incorrect installation

But to succeed in that line of argument, you'd have to prove that no unqualified person could ever install the product correctly.

After all, the Triton MIs that I'm looking at here are surprisingly comprehensive (given that I didn't even open them on Thursday when I installed the shower), and an undersized supply cable, which is one of the more likely errors that an amateur would make, won't have the slightest effect on the shower in the context of a warranty claim.

 

[swidders]

From (my sample of 1) MI :

"Not covered by this guarantee - Damage or defects arising from incorrect installation"

I would argue that failure to be installed by a qualified electrician semantically means that it is prima facie an incorrect installation

But to succeed in that line of argument, you'd have to prove that no unqualified person could ever install the product correctly.

So you don't hold with the argument "correct installation" if and only if "qualified electrician"?

After all, the Triton MIs that I'm looking at here are surprisingly comprehensive (given that I didn't even open them on Thursday when I installed the shower), and an undersized supply cable, which is one of the more likely errors that an amateur would make, won't have the slightest effect on the shower in the context of a warranty claim.

Are you qualified?
Joking apart, in reality, true. But the possibility, no matter how negligible, exists.

 

[goosander]

In that case why did you write "to hell with Part P"?

Because I don't know what the Scottish equivalent is called or even if it currently exists (though I know it has been proposed).

You still have electrical fires though, right?

Not so far No doubt you still have electrical fires in England despite part P (and I bet the number hasn't significantly changed since its introduction).

To reiterate: how will you calculate the correct cable CSA to use?

I would use the size of cable recommended in the installation instructions and double check with the wiring regs to see whether the size is appropriate for my installation taking in to account the wattage of shower, the length of wiring required from shower to CU and the route that the cable would need to take (whether enclosed etc).

IIRC, 10mm CSA is sufficient for even high power showers in just about all domestic situations.

 

[Softus]

So you don't hold with the argument "correct installation" if and only if "qualified electrician"?

Of course not.

Are you qualified?

To do what?

What was that for?

Joking apart, in reality, true. But the possibility, no matter how negligible, exists.

Erm, you've lost me - the possibility of what?
________________

In that case why did you write "to hell with Part P"?

Because I don't know what the Scottish equivalent is called or even if it currently exists (though I know it has been proposed).

Well, to put it another way, why did you write something that implies a cavalier approach to safety?

You still have electrical fires though, right?

Not so far No doubt you still have electrical fires in England despite part P (and I bet the number hasn't significantly changed since its introduction).

Are you talking about the [relatively] new notification aspect, or the requirement to install safely?

To reiterate: how will you calculate the correct cable CSA to use?

I would use the size of cable recommended in the installation instructions and double check with the wiring regs to see whether the size is appropriate for my installation taking in to account the wattage of shower, the length of wiring required from shower to CU and the route that the cable would need to take (whether enclosed etc).

The delay in your reply was roughly equivalent to the time needed to look up the answer, so I remain unimpressed.

IIRC, 10mm CSA is sufficient for even high power showers in just about all domestic situations.

Yes, all situations except those in which it's inadequate.

 

[swidders]

So you don't hold with the argument "correct installation" if and only if "qualified electrician"?

Of course not.

We disagree then

Are you qualified?

To do what?

To install that shower

What was that for?

To indicate irony in the context of this post - unnecessary and irrelevant. I apologise

Joking apart, in reality, true. But the possibility, no matter how negligible, exists.

Erm, you've lost me - the possibility of what?

"the context of a warranty claim"

 

[Softus]

We disagree then

No we don't.

Are you qualified?

To do what?

To install that shower

Of course.

I apologise

Not needed, but thanks.

Joking apart, in reality, true. But the possibility, no matter how negligible, exists.

Erm, you've lost me - the possibility of what?

"the context of a warranty claim"

Oh OK. I agree that it does exist, but I don't agree that such a claim would be rejected out of hand because there was no evidence of a installation by a qualified person.

 

[goosander]

The delay in your reply was roughly equivalent to the time needed to look up the answer, so I remain unimpressed.

I don't care - why would you expect someone who isn't a sparkie to memorise information such as this - that is what reference texts (and the internet) are for.

 

[swidders]

So you don't hold with the argument "correct installation" if and only if "qualified electrician"?

Of course not.

We disagree then

No we don't.

Huh?

Erm, you've lost me - the possibility of what?

"the context of a warranty claim"

Oh OK. I agree that it does exist, but I don't agree that such a claim would be rejected out of hand because there was no evidence of a installation by a qualified person.

Have you misworded this? Do you mean "wouldn't be rejected"?

Apart from that I think we've nearly exhausted this topic now.

 

[Softus]

I don't care

And yet you continued....

why would you expect someone who isn't a sparkie to memorise information such as this

Well I'm not a "sparkie", but I knew the answer. But then I'm not the one pretending to be competent.

 

[Softus]

We disagree then

No we don't.

Huh?

Erm, you've lost me - the possibility of what?

"the context of a warranty claim"

Oh OK. I agree that it does exist, but I don't agree that such a claim would be rejected out of hand because there was no evidence of a installation by a qualified person.

Have you misworded this? Do you mean "wouldn't be rejected"?

I don't think so, but I suspect we've exhausted that mini-thread anyway.

Apart from that I think we've nearly exhausted this topic now.

And there was me thinking the same thing.