Most Efficient Way To Use Boiler

[pcsparky]

We had a Vaillant ecoMAX 835 fitted 2 years ago and have had loads of problems with it coming on when it shouldn't or not turning off. It appears that this is simply due to a communication problem between transmitter and receiver (of which we've had countless replacements and moved the tramsitter closer to the boiler). The transmitter is a dual thermostat and timer.

This week in an effort to conclude that it is this problem Vaillant have removed the receiver and replaced it with a manual timer at the boiler, so we set the temperature of the boiler and set the timer when to come on and go off.

After this test I will probably be left with a choice of keeping a manual timer and regulating the temperature using the TRV's, replacing the transmitter with a hard wired one or trying yet again with a wireless transmitter.

We live in a bungalow with solid internal walls and no close neighbours. All of the radiators are fitted with Mistral TRV's with three of them fitted with Chartwell brass TRV's. Our new radiators in the living room and bedroom are adequate for the room sizes using 60 deg. to work out the BTU's. Some of our older radiators are clearly not big enough to heat the spaces they were put into, including the large hall where the tramsitter/thermostat is fitted. It is not an option to put the transmitter in the living room it would have to remain in the hall.

So my question is which would be the most cost effective way of using gas at the boiler to heat our home.

1. Use a manual timer at the boiler and set the heat at 60 deg. setting each TRV to adjust the temperature for each room.

2. Use a manual timer at the boiler and set the heat according to the season, eg. higher than 60 deg. in winter and much lower than 60 deg. in summer, then setting each TRV to adjust the temperature for each room.

3. Using a trasmitter and receiver (thermostat and timer) having the boiler set at maximum.

4. Any other suggestion.

Thank you in anticipation.

 

[D_Hailsham]

We had a Vaillant ecoMAX 835 fitted 2 years ago and have had loads of problems with it coming on when it shouldn't or not turning off. It appears that this is simply due to a communication problem between transmitter and receiver (of which we've had countless replacements and moved the tramsitter closer to the boiler). The transmitter is a dual thermostat and timer.

This week in an effort to conclude that it is this problem Vaillant have removed the receiver and replaced it with a manual timer at the boiler, so we set the temperature of the boiler and set the timer when to come on and go off.

Did you have the problem when the transmitter and receiver were in the same room, or was it only when there were walls separating the two?
If the former, the wireless kit was obviously faulty and it is Vaillant's responsibility to provide you with a wireless system which is "fit for purpose". I certainly would not accept anything less. If necessary get your local Trading Standards office involved.

If the problem only occurred when the transmitter and receiver were in different rooms, it might just be a case of relocating the receiver nearer the transmitter.

After this test I will probably be left with a choice of keeping a manual timer and regulating the temperature using the TRV's

That should definitely not be an acceptable solution

replacing the transmitter with a hard wired one

Only if Vaillant are unable to solve the wireless problem and I would expect them to pay for all work involved in installing the wired programmer.

trying yet again with a wireless transmitter.

The only acceptable solution and Vaillants responsibility

All of the radiators are fitted with Mistral TRV's with three of them fitted with Chartwell brass TRV's.

Does that include the radiator in the hall where the transmitter is? If so, it's wrong. You should never have a TRV and a thermostat in the same room. The problem being that, if the TRV is set to a lower temperature than the stat, the stat will never shut the boiler down; and, if the TRV is set higher than the stat, the TRV will do nothing as the room temp will be controlled by the stat.

Some of our older radiators are clearly not big enough to heat the spaces they were put into, including the large hall where the transmitter/thermostat is fitted. It is not an option to put the transmitter in the living room it would have to remain in the hall.

The hall is probably the best place for the stat, provided there is no TRV on the hall rad. Though I am intrigued as to why you cannot put the transmitter in the living room.

So my question is which would be the most cost effective way of using gas at the boiler to heat our home.

Using a transmitter and receiver (thermostat and timer) having the boiler set at maximum.

Don't forget that your boiler will modulate between min and max output, so setting the boiler set to max does not mean it is always running on max.

 

[pcsparky]

Thanks for such a comprehensive reply. Vaillant didn't actually install the boiler it was installed by a heating engineer but under the warranty it is Vaillant that keep coming out to try and fix it.

During all of the problems there have been times when I have physically moved the transmitter next to the boiler with continued problems. It was placed in the hall right next to the kitchen door so that there is an open space from there to the open utility room door where the boiler is.

So far the boiler has had a new diverter valve, a new circuit board and I think 4 new transmitters and receivers.

I keep getting told that the actual boiler can't be at fault (though it would have been cheaper to replace this than all of the callouts). Last year in May the pump started to play up and it was replaced. Since then I didn't have any communication errors. Strange.

This last couple of weeks the same old problem arose with the boiler switching to manual mode due to no communication with the transmitter. I could always reset it using an RF reset on the transmitter. I tried replacing the batteries, which I thought had sorted the problem for 2 days and then it started again.

Unfortunately the heating engineer was an ex-work colleague so it is awkward him being a friend but I've already told him that I was considering using the Sales of Goods Act. He's not replied to me but at the end of the day we've spent a lot of money on this boiler. I presume it is him and not Vaillant that I would have to use this Act on?

We didn't want the transmitter in the living room for aesthetic reasons. The only places it could go where it wouldn't be an eyesore is either near to radiators or the french doors and I would have thought that they wouldn't be a good choice.

The hall radiator has a TRV on it because initially the transmitter was supposed to be a mobile one, which has now been replaced with an upgraded model. We do keep the TRV fully open in the hall to allow the boiler to work correctly.

The Head Vaillant engineer was basically giving me the options of sticking with the manual timer, having a wired transmitter or trying again with a new wireless one and new receiver. I'm not particularly happy about the wired because I wanted one of those in the first place before we decorated the hall but was told that it had to be wireless. It would mean having to have a visible cable or redecorating that small area. The cheeky b**ger even asked if either the heating engineer or I could put the cable in place up through the loft.

As you can imagine we've not been very happy about all of this for the past two years.

 

[giblets]

Just out of interest, what make & model of wireless thermostat did you have fitted initially?

 

[pcsparky]

Just out of interest, what make & model of wireless thermostat did you have fitted initially?

It was the one supplied by Vaillant to go with the boiler in early 2006. Not sure if I've still got the old info booklet but will have a look when I get home.

 

[D_Hailsham]

If Vaillant had not become directly involved, I would have agreed with you thoughts that, under the Sale of Goods Act, you would have to take action against the retailer (installer). But now I am not sure; it may be that Vaillant have left themselves open to action. You need to discuss this with Trading Standards.

Your comment that the problem went away when a new pump was installed but has now returned makes me wonder if the problem is caused by interference from an external source, poor wiring etc. Some older wireless stats were very temperamental.

 

[pcsparky]

You need to discuss this with Trading Standards.

I have sent an email off to them and hope to hear soon where I stand.

Your comment that the problem went away when a new pump was installed but has now returned makes me wonder if the problem is caused by interference from an external source, poor wiring etc. Some older wireless stats were very temperamental.

I can't find details about what the older transmitter was but it has now had two new VRT340f transmitters and new receivers. I initially had a hard wired thermostat and separate programmer that I was very happy with. I was informed by the installer that I had to have the wireless set up but having looked at the installation manual this appears to have been a lie. I'm reluctant to have a hard wired now simply because it would mean redecorating and we've already had the walls replastered.

 

[gas4you]

I would think the original was the 340 as well as this is designed just for the Ecomax range.

When the boiler was not doing what it should, what was the display reading on the transmitter? Did they enter the test program to see if the 2 units were connected? I think this is the same as on the 360.

 

[pcsparky]

I would think the original was the 340 as well as this is designed just for the Ecomax range.

When the boiler was not doing what it should, what was the display reading on the transmitter? Did they enter the test program to see if the 2 units were connected? I think this is the same as on the 360.

Yes, I have seen another photo of the old transmitter on this site, it was the 340f.

Unfortunately, it being an intermittent fault it was Murphy's law that the fault was never present when the engineer called out, though I did video it to prove the fault.

The transmitter never showed any kind of fault, such as low battery or RF error. It would just show what I would expect it to have shown were it working properly.

The receiver would usually have the green 'OK' light and red 'Manual' light both flashing when at fault. Even moving the transmitter within a few centimeters of the receiver would have no effect. I could always get the transmitter to overide this and communicate again by holding in the 'P' button and dial together for 3 seconds then pressing the dial unitl 'RF On' was showing.

Sometimes though the boiler continued to heat the central heating when it shouldn't whilst showing the normal 'OK' light.