moving a power socket in kitchen

[lilac]

Please could someone clarify the rules for me. I would like to move a wall socket in my kitchen (downstairs sockets ring) - the cables were installed professionally (well you could call it that!) but were dangled behind some wall cladding I have now removed. Before I plasterboard the ceiling I want to move the socket - make the existing cables tidier and shorter and properly secure them to wall in plastic trunking. So its just a question of (turning power off - would i need to turn all off or just downstairs sockets with separate fuse) disconnecting cables - re-locating mounting box and wiring in cable to mounting box - am i allowed to do this ? regards

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Kitchen area, Even minor work needs notifying under part p or registered(competent person scheme) should be used

 

[lilac]

thank you

 

[chapeau]

Remember that for the purposes of Part P, 'kitchen' only extends for 3m from the sink.

 

[ColJack]

where does it say that?

 

[chapeau]

Approved Document P.

And anyway, if you read the Part P SI very carefully, what he proposes doesn't appear notifiable even if he is within 3m of a sink. And on top of that, it appears he is going to be improving safety. So why get all upset about it?

 

[ColJack]

as said on more than one currently running thread..
the approved documents are not law..
there is no mention of a "kitchen" stopping at 3M from the sink..

ANY electrical work in a kitchen is notifiable according to the building regulations.. it clearly says under schedule 2B...

2. Work which—
(a)
is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

..
this clearly means that work which IS in a kitchen or special location is notifiable..

 

[chapeau]

I refer lilac to

1) Approved Document P, Section 0, Page 7. This gives a guideline to what a kitchen means, '.... in open plan areas the zone of a kitchen may be considered to extend from the edge of the sink to a distance of 3m.....'

2) Building Act 1984, S (7) (1) (b). This says in law that if guidance is given in an Approved document then the presumption is that there is no liability in a criminal or civil action. Thats law, not advice.

3) And the Whole of paragraph 2 of the Part P statutory instrument, not just a selected quotation that ColJack uses.

If you read the whole paragraph you will see that only work that
consists of -

(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit; or
(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit;

Is notifiable if in a kitchen.

As you are not proposing to add a light fitting, switch, socket or fused spur then the whole of that paragraph doesn't apply. Nowhere else in the SI is kitchen mentioned apart from a definition. Being in a kitchen is irrelevant to your proposed work.

I'd go ahead and do a better job

 

[plugwash]

The SI gives a list of things that are not notifiable and says that all other electrical work is.

So afaict technically moving a socket anywhere is notifable.

 

[ColJack]

2. Work which—
(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,
(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and
(c) consists of—
(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit; or
(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit;

you obviously interpret this different than me then..

I interpret that as

electrical work that is adding light fittings, switches, sockets or spurs to existing curcuits is not notifiable unless it is a "special installation" or is in a special location or a kitchen

this conversely means that electrical work which is not adding sockets ( etc ) to an existing circuit IS notifiable, irrespective of it's location and from above we can see that adding sockets etc in a kitchen or special location IS notifiable.
Therefore ALL electrical work in a kitchen or special location IS notifiable.

 

[chapeau]

Well ColJack, when you say

electrical work that is adding light fittings, switches, sockets or spurs to existing curcuits is not notifiable unless it is a "special installation" or is in a special location or a kitchen

I actually agree with you. It's when you take your argument further that you get it wrong.

 

[ColJack]

how is it wrong?

adding sockets / switches etc anywhere but a kitchen or special location is NOT notifiable..

any other work that it NOT adding sockets / switches etc IS notifiable...

so as you have to notify to do anything EXCEPT add sockets etc wherever you are, AND you have to notify to add sockets / switches etc in a kitchen then ALL electrical work in a kitchen is notifiable...

 

[chapeau]

Therefore ALL electrical work in a kitchen or special location IS notifiable.

ALL electrical work in a kitchen is notifiable...

no it isn't.

The Part P SI has a long list of work that is not notifiable in a kitchen.

Do you need to notify the installation of main bonding on the incoming mains water pipe that is under the kitchen sink?

 

[ColJack]

ok, mental slip there.. I should have added "excepting items listed as not-notifiable in sections 1 and 3..."

I don't classify the items in section 1 as "electrical work", I class that as repair and rectification work..
by "electrical work" I mean new circuits, adding to existing, changing breakers etc...., not installing bonding that should already be there or screwing a socket back onto a wall or fixing a damaged cable..

If you read the whole paragraph you will see that only work that
consists of -

(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit; or
(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit;

Is notifiable if in a kitchen.

so according to you I can put in a new cooker circuit and change a CU in the kitchen because you say that ONLY adding sockets / switches etc to an existing circuit is notifiable in a kitchen..?

 

[chapeau]

so according to you I can put in a new cooker circuit and change a CU in the kitchen because you say that ONLY adding sockets / switches etc to an existing circuit is notifiable in a kitchen..?

1) Putting in a new cooker circuit or provision of a new CU is notifiable anywhere.

2) Installing sockets/spurs/lights/switches is notifiable if done in a kitchen (or special location or on special installation)

i.e. that category of work is not notifiable if done elsewhere. This is laid out in Part 2 of the Part P SI.

3) Part 1 of the Part P SI makes no reference to location and work authorised by that part is permitted anywhere that Part P applies to, including kitchens.

4) Part 3 of the Part P SI doesn't apply to kitchens either.

Very simple and here endeth the lesson