Provision is not the criterion.
Moving consumer unit
- Thread starter thomp1983
- Start date
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So we're talking about definitions?
The first hit on google for 'replace':
put (something) back in a previous place or position.
"he drained his glass and replaced it on the bar"
For 'replaced':
replace, displace, supplant, supersede mean to put out of a usual or proper place or into the place of another. replace implies a filling of a place once occupied by something lost, destroyed, or no longer usable or adequate. replaced the broken window displace implies an ousting or dislodging.
As I see it that covers:
1, removal and restoration, ie take it off the wall and put it back again.
2, moving something, ie taking it off the wall and putting it back somewhere else
3, changing something, ie taking it off the wall and putting analternative in its place
The first hit on Google for 'replacement':
the action or process of replacing someone or something.
a person or thing that takes the place of another.
"please stay until we find a replacement for you"
And replacement is currently notifiable?
Installing a CU in a room where there wasn't one surely has to be considered as provision and is notifiable?
Where in any of this is moving a CU to a different location not notifiable?
And suddenly I feel the CU in the garage I described was in fact notifiable.
The first hit on google for 'replace':
put (something) back in a previous place or position.
"he drained his glass and replaced it on the bar"
For 'replaced':
replace, displace, supplant, supersede mean to put out of a usual or proper place or into the place of another. replace implies a filling of a place once occupied by something lost, destroyed, or no longer usable or adequate. replaced the broken window displace implies an ousting or dislodging.
As I see it that covers:
1, removal and restoration, ie take it off the wall and put it back again.
2, moving something, ie taking it off the wall and putting it back somewhere else
3, changing something, ie taking it off the wall and putting analternative in its place
The first hit on Google for 'replacement':
the action or process of replacing someone or something.
a person or thing that takes the place of another.
"please stay until we find a replacement for you"
And replacement is currently notifiable?
Installing a CU in a room where there wasn't one surely has to be considered as provision and is notifiable?
Where in any of this is moving a CU to a different location not notifiable?
And suddenly I feel the CU in the garage I described was in fact notifiable.
How do you deduce
"2, moving something, ie taking it off the wall and putting it back somewhere else"
form the definition?
"2, moving something, ie taking it off the wall and putting it back somewhere else"
form the definition?
As I said, although that has been suggested (by more than one person), if "re-termination" means to disconnect and then reconnect circuits from their 'terminations' in my CU, then your/their suggestion would mean that when I test my installation, that would be 'notifiable' - which it obviously isn't.
Also, as I said, provided only that it doesn't create a new circuit (or is in bathroom zones) extending any part of any circuit or cable is NOT notifiable (in England). That surely means that extending the cable of a circuit at the CU end is NOT, in itself, notifiable, even though it requires a new bit of cable to be terminated in the CU and also requires a new joint (involving 'terminations') to be installed. The only conceivable way I can think that you could try to wriggle out of that would be to suggest that extending the CU end of a cable would result in creation of a 'new circuit' - but I really don't think that would be a sensible or credible suggestion.
Kind Regards, John
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In many cases, that would be a perfectly reasonable approach. However, if it were a pretty new board and the only 'non-conformities' were that it is plastic (and didn't have an SPD!) then I'm far less convinced.
Glad you agree. As I said, I would personally regard that argument/logic as inescapable.
True. However, as you go on to say, there is nothing stopping the customer looking for an electrician whose mind doesn't need changing - so what it actually "comes down to" is whether the dissenting electrician does or does not want/need the work!
Kind Regards, John
Well, for a start, even if "provision of a CU" came into it (which, as EFLI says, it doesn't), I cannot see how an electrician could be said to have "provided" a CU which belonged to the property own and was already there.
I really don't think "room without a CU" vs. "room with a CU" is relevant - not the least because I strongly suspect you'd be presenting exactly the same viewpoint (but without being able to argue that it was a different room) if we were talking about moving a CU a substantial distance within the same large room, wouldn't you? ... and, following your 'logic', could knocking down a wall (or building a new one - or even re-purposing a room) mean that the fact that the CU was now 'in a different room' have to be notified?
Kind Regards, John
One clearly can't deduce that. The definition quoted clearly indicates that 'replacing' requires EITHER (a) that something is put back where it always has been OR (b) that something new/different is put in the place of something with has been removed.
I confess that I was a little worried and had to check with dictionaries before I wrote last night, since I feared that someone might come up with the suggestion that, if viewed as "re-place", the word could be taken to mean 're-position', 'relocate' or 'move'. However, as I wrote at the time, that certainly is not how everyday English works. If I wanted something (anything) moved from one place to another in my house, I would never ask for it to be 'replaced' - not the least because, if I did use that word, I would probably worry about what it might be 'replaced' with
Kind Regards, John
Yes, I thought that as well and agree with you.
As you say, were you to ask an electrician to replace the CU, his response would not be "Where to?"?
As you say, were you to ask an electrician to replace the CU, his response would not be "Where to?"?
Editting from my previous I get to:
The first hit on google for 'replace':
put (something) back in a previous place or position.
"he drained his glass and replaced it on the bar"
As I see it that covers:
1, removal and restoration, ie take it off the wall and put it back again.
For 'replaced':
replace, displace, supplant, supersede mean to put out of a usual or proper place or into the place of another. replace implies a filling of a place once occupied by something lost, destroyed, or no longer usable or adequate. replaced the broken window displace implies an ousting or dislodging.
As I see it that covers:
2, moving something, ie taking it off the wall and putting it back somewhere else.
The first hit on Google for 'replacement':
the action or process of replacing someone or something.
a person or thing that takes the place of another.
"please stay until we find a replacement for you"
As I see it that covers:
3, changing something, ie taking it off the wall and putting analternative in its place.
Additionally I feel there is overlap between the definitions.
That suggestion, or even the thought of it is just plain simple stupidity if no changes were made to the Electrical device. Other considerations may be required like if the room then became a special place.
Last edited:
"replace, displace, supplant, supersede mean to put out of a usual or proper place or into the place of another. replace implies a filling of a place once occupied by something lost, destroyed, or no longer usable or adequate. replaced the broken window displace implies an ousting or dislodging."
The English isn't too good for a start and is, I think, from an American dictionary.
The English isn't too good for a start and is, I think, from an American dictionary.
As you will have seen, neither EFLI nor myself are able to see it like that.
Anyway, no matter what you might find in dictionaries, do you really disagree with me about 'everyday English' ('Common Usage')? If you asked someone to "replace" an extractor fan, tap, boiler, immersion heater, washing machine etc. etc. etc., do you really believe they they would even dream that you were asking for an existing item to be moved to some different location in your house?
Kind Regards, John
SUNRAY:
Ah. I see now you have not used the actual definitions of replace, but quoted an explanation of synonyms from which replace is distinct.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/replace
Ah. I see now you have not used the actual definitions of replace, but quoted an explanation of synonyms from which replace is distinct.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/replace
I should perhaps have added that the default in legislation is that words have their 'everyday meanings'.
If those who wrote the legislation relating to notification of electric work (in England) had intended something other than the everyday meaning of the word "replacing", they could only have achieved that by including a specific definition of the meaning of that word for the purpose of the legislation - which they did not do.
Kind Regards, John
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