Multiple PIRs connected to single control timer box

For an underground car park, which obviously will be totally dark all the time without lighting, any form of PIRs or timers is totally useless.

Even if you want to still have these PIRs or whatever, a 2 minute delay is far too little - 20 minutes would be more like it, to cover those situations already mentioned such as people waiting in their cars and plenty of others.

This means in reality, the lights will be on most of the time anyway, and savings from these timers or whatever will be tiny.

20 fluorescent tubes would be approx 1kW load, and even if they were on for only 60% of the time (in reality it would be far more), you are only saving about £1 per day - £365 per year. It will be many years before the savings even cover the cost of the PIRs, timers and switches, not to mention the increased maintenance costs incurred in replacing the tubes far more often, cleaning the PIRs every month and replacing items damaged by vandals etc.

The car park should already have some form of emergency lighting to cover power failures etc., so good luck wiring timers and PIRs into that without extensive and expensive modifications. If no emergency lighting, then it's only a matter of time before someone is injured due to falling down in the dark and the massive compensation claim arrives shortly afterwards, which more than likely won't be covered by your insurance due to the negligent lack of lighting.
 
Sponsored Links
I'd be inclined to agree with the others as to the effectiveness.
As a minimum, you'd need to have some of the lights unswitched - so that there is always enough light to be able to move around safely, even if it's not a "good" light level. And some of that would need to be battery backed.

As to the rest, a number of PIRs which you can get as 12V units for alarm systems, a 12V power supply (if using ELV sensors), and an off-delay timer make up your controls.
There are a lot of different timer relays available, here is a selection :
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/autom...ers/time-delay-relays/?searchTerm=timer+relay

Don't forget other details. For example, painting everything a bright colour (white is usually cheapest) makes everything lighter for a given quantity of lighting.

Also, consider not switching the lights, but dimming them. It'll cost more to do, but deals with two problems - especially the issue of plunging people into darkness should they manage to avoid triggering the sensors.
 
For an underground car park, which obviously will be totally dark all the time without lighting, any form of PIRs or timers is totally useless. Even if you want to still have these PIRs or whatever, a 2 minute delay is far too little - 20 minutes would be more like it, to cover those situations already mentioned such as people waiting in their cars and plenty of others.
Provided that there was some degree of 'background lighting' and enough PIRs to ensure that one would be rapidly triggered by any activity (e.g. people getting out of a car after a long wait in it), I'm not so sure that one would necessarily need a delay anything like as long as 20 minutes.
20 fluorescent tubes would be approx 1kW load, and even if they were on for only 60% of the time (in reality it would be far more), you are only saving about £1 per day - £365 per year. It will be many years before the savings even cover the cost of the PIRs, timers and switches, not to mention the increased maintenance costs incurred in replacing the tubes far more often, cleaning the PIRs every month and replacing items damaged by vandals etc.
Whilst I tend to agree with you conceptually, if (as above) one had a fairly modest time delay, and given that there's presumably going to be several hours at night where then will be minimal usage, I would think that your 60% (or "far more") is probably a bit pessimistic. However, I agree that the saving is not likely to amount to more than a few hundred pounds per year, so one does have to question the wisdom of the concept.

Kind Regards, John
 
Sponsored Links
Actually, the car park currently has 21 light fixtures each containing 2 x 58w tubes.

In total, we are using 2436 watts per hour just in lighting, so cutting this by 70% is not negligible. I estimate that we are currently spending about £1,800 a year just to light the car park.

The first step will be to keep only one tube in each light fixture, as two tubes are not necessary. I assume that it's just a matter of removing one tube and no other changes are necessary.

Then, the idea is to install 6 PIRs to cover most of the car park. My understanding is that the timer gets reset when detecting some motion, so no need to put the timer on 20 minutes. If someone is unloading a car from the car park, this will keep resetting the timer and will keep the light on for as long as required.

Also, I am considering keeping 5 or 6 lights on all the time, for safety and security (and also to consider the delay for fluorescent lights to switch on). So even if we set the timer to a short duration, people would still get some light and not complete darkeness.

As mentioned, I need to keep the cost of the project low, else there won't a return on investment. Therefore, changing all the lights to something else is not viable, and the same applies to replacing all tubes by LEDs (although I may use LEDs for the lights staying on all the time).
 
Then, the idea is to install 6 PIRs to cover most of the car park. My understanding is that the timer gets reset when detecting some motion, so no need to put the timer on 20 minutes. If someone is unloading a car from the car park, this will keep resetting the timer and will keep the light on for as long as required.
Yes, that's the concept if you use PIRs, but it does rely on having enough of them. I don't know exactly how big this car park is (dimensions, not car capacity), but I would suspect that 6 PIRs may be rather optimistic, particularly given the obstructions (vehicles) all over the place.
Also, I am considering keeping 5 or 6 lights on all the time, for safety and security (and also to consider the delay for fluorescent lights to switch on). So even if we set the timer to a short duration, people would still get some light and not complete darkeness.
As has been said, it's more-or-less essential for there to be some permanent lighting (including some with battery backup). I had rather assumed that would be the case.

Kind Regards, John
 
I'd imagine something like a two zone emerald controller, maybe a couple of expanders depending on loading and site layout / circuit arrangement, and opal PIRs as necessary.
 
Am I the only one looking at the date of the original post as it sounds very familiar ...
 
I indeed raised the same topic before, but the question of the new thread was about whether a centralised timer is available on the market. I requested a quote from an electrician, and he said that adjustments on each PIR would need to be made regarding timing, which is not practical.
 
I indeed raised the same topic before, but the question of the new thread was about whether a centralised timer is available on the market. I requested a quote from an electrician, and he said that adjustments on each PIR would need to be made regarding timing, which is not practical.
Not only impractical, but nonsensical advice. I think you would be wise to keep well away from that 'electrician'.

Kind Regards, John
 
He may well be an electrician, but just one that only knows about a narrow field - I'm guessing nothing more than domestics.
 
He may well be an electrician, but just one that only knows about a narrow field - I'm guessing nothing more than domestics.
Even if that's what he is, I would expect him to know that standalone time-delay modules exist, even if he hadn't had much cause to use them. After all, I know, and you presumably also know, and we're not electricians of any sort!

Whatever, even if you're right, he clearly is not an appropriate person to be advising about the situation in question.

Kind Regards, John
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top