Not sure I’ll bother trying to reclaim from LABC though, hardly seems worth it for the agro it may cause me as Iv'e future BI inspections on work being done here!
My disagreement with LABC re testing of electrical work...
- Thread starter LiamPope
- Start date
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You've been quite reasonable, asked all the right questions and got some answers. Justifiably you are not happy with the answers.
Go through the Councils formal complaints procedure - they must have one - to try to resolve it. Involve your local Councillor - generally they have little time for the Council officials especially when they ignore guidance on how to run the Councils services. If that doesn't get you anywhere go to the Local Government Ombudsman. The LGO won't accept a referral direct unless you have exhausted the in-house systems the Council has.
It's all free - apart from your time.
Why the hell should they get away with blatantly ignoring central government "guidance" because they will follow the "guidance" to the letter when it suits them.
If nothing else you'll involve some pretty well paid expensive people at the Council in a load of paperwork and shed loads of time doing something that really p***** them off. They hate Councillor and Ombudsmans enquiries.
Go through the Councils formal complaints procedure - they must have one - to try to resolve it. Involve your local Councillor - generally they have little time for the Council officials especially when they ignore guidance on how to run the Councils services. If that doesn't get you anywhere go to the Local Government Ombudsman. The LGO won't accept a referral direct unless you have exhausted the in-house systems the Council has.
It's all free - apart from your time.
Why the hell should they get away with blatantly ignoring central government "guidance" because they will follow the "guidance" to the letter when it suits them.
If nothing else you'll involve some pretty well paid expensive people at the Council in a load of paperwork and shed loads of time doing something that really p***** them off. They hate Councillor and Ombudsmans enquiries.
The other thing they hate is attention from the District Auditor.
So another complaining route might be to ask the DA to look into the issue of the council charging notification fees and then refusing to satisfy themselves that you've complied and refusing therefore to issue a completion certificate.
So another complaining route might be to ask the DA to look into the issue of the council charging notification fees and then refusing to satisfy themselves that you've complied and refusing therefore to issue a completion certificate.
Out of interest, Richard C, is your spark issuing an Electrical Installation Certificate or a Periodic Inspection Report?
BAS - you're dead right. The LABCs have the upper hand as it's the householder that needs the completion certificate from them. There are therefore strong reasons why a householder might feel it best to submit to the LABC's bullying and pay up. As I said as long as LABCs can get away with it that will remain the case. That's one reason i might consider paying up, getting everything finished, then claiming my testing costs back through the small claims court. I've then got nothing to loose (and my 200 odd quid to gain) - it'll be a good hobby
Another option, i guess, is to do all the work so that only the testing and completion certificate is outstanding, then take up the fight again from there.
Thanks for the info Cremeegg. I'll certainly look down these routes after i hear from LABC services/dept. of CLG on the matter. I feel I still need to determine whether them ignoring the 'guidance' is actually illegal, as this would add considerable weight to my arguments.
Cheers guys,
Liam
BAS - you're dead right. The LABCs have the upper hand as it's the householder that needs the completion certificate from them. There are therefore strong reasons why a householder might feel it best to submit to the LABC's bullying and pay up. As I said as long as LABCs can get away with it that will remain the case. That's one reason i might consider paying up, getting everything finished, then claiming my testing costs back through the small claims court. I've then got nothing to loose (and my 200 odd quid to gain) - it'll be a good hobby
Another option, i guess, is to do all the work so that only the testing and completion certificate is outstanding, then take up the fight again from there.
Thanks for the info Cremeegg. I'll certainly look down these routes after i hear from LABC services/dept. of CLG on the matter. I feel I still need to determine whether them ignoring the 'guidance' is actually illegal, as this would add considerable weight to my arguments.
Cheers guys,
Liam
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Ignoring guidance is not illegal just as ignoring BS7671 is not illegal as its not a statutory piece of legislation. However when the brown stuff hits the fan and an electrician hasn't followed BS7671 if he/she can't show that they did something at least as good then they have problems. Same under various safety laws - plenty of codes of practice - if you don't follow them when HSE come knocking you must have done something equally as good if not better.
I'd go through their formal procedures - they'll hate it - as friends "in the system" will testify - it all sucks up huge amounts of their time.
Small claims court as well - never looks good for the local Council to be in the muck.
Try the local Press as well they will always run anti-Council stories - especially after you've won with the Ombudsman & Small Claims Court. The Ombudsman can award "damages" or compensation as well.
I'd go through their formal procedures - they'll hate it - as friends "in the system" will testify - it all sucks up huge amounts of their time.
Small claims court as well - never looks good for the local Council to be in the muck.
Try the local Press as well they will always run anti-Council stories - especially after you've won with the Ombudsman & Small Claims Court. The Ombudsman can award "damages" or compensation as well.
I made sure there was no misunderstanding on exactly what I wanted, it’s the real thing - an Electrical Installation Certificate. As I understand it, a Periodic Inspection Report isn’t acceptable evidence for an LABC completion certificate which is what makes a total nonsense of their stance. They are encouraging sparks to breach their code of practice & I fully understand it’s not something he should be doing! To be fair, although my circuit was live, the cable runs, connections, spur JB’s etc. were still visible as 1st fix; it’s a piddly en-suite so there isn’t much of it & he inspected the lot so I suppose you could argue it’s been done “under supervision”.
I think I’ve been lucky in that a long standing friend of mine is a property developer & the guy is his regular electrical contractor doing all the work on his new properties. He was prepared to accept my friend’s word that my work would be good & cut me some slack. He commented both my work & the test results were good & the only thing I fell down on was that I’d missed blue sleeving the black neutral cable on the 4 core fan/isolator circuit! He left me a short length of sleeving as I insisted on correcting it as I want to do it right. At the end of the day, he was happy with my work & 50 quid for an hour of his time & I was very happy with the price as it’s still a lot less than it would have cost me if I’d hired a Part P to do it; which is sort of where it all started. If I hadn’t managed to find a “friendly spark”, I could have been in the ridiculous situation where I would have had to rip it all out & pay a registered spark to redo it all because many LABC wont follow the rules; this country is going crazy!
Blimey your LABC are more crooked than mine!! Mine have said they will accept a PIR and that is basically their way round the fact that a DIYer can't legally get an EIC for their own work. Your's will accept the illegal EIC - wow! Well as long as you get your completion certificate good on you!
Refering to your second paragraph there's absolutely no way you could be in that position! Sure it may have ended up in court but you did everything to the letter by notifying and having a BCO inspect.
Liam
Refering to your second paragraph there's absolutely no way you could be in that position! Sure it may have ended up in court but you did everything to the letter by notifying and having a BCO inspect.
Liam
Just found this that might help a bit as well.
From the Govt review of the Part P schemes best part of 300 pages but an amusing read:-
Monitoring of Electrical Safety Competent Person Self-Certification Schemes
BD 2612
May 2008
Communities and Local Government
Para 4.5 pages 34 & 35
When electrical installation work is carried out by persons who are not qualified to complete the appropriate BS 7671 requirements for inspection, testing, verification and certification, the relevant local authority building control department must decide to what extent it will be necessary to inspect and test the electrical work in order to verify that the work is safe and complies with all the relevant requirements of Building Regulations. Building control bodies may choose to carry out the inspection and testing themselves, or they may engage a competent electrical contractor to carry out the verification work on their behalf. Building control bodies must carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense, not at the householders’ expense. In either of the cases mentioned, a BS 7671 Electrical Installation Certificate will not be issued (as these can only be issued by those carrying out the work). After verification of the work the building control body will issue a Building Regulations completion certificate.
Keep on going - keep the b*****s on the run
From the Govt review of the Part P schemes best part of 300 pages but an amusing read:-
Monitoring of Electrical Safety Competent Person Self-Certification Schemes
BD 2612
May 2008
Communities and Local Government
Para 4.5 pages 34 & 35
When electrical installation work is carried out by persons who are not qualified to complete the appropriate BS 7671 requirements for inspection, testing, verification and certification, the relevant local authority building control department must decide to what extent it will be necessary to inspect and test the electrical work in order to verify that the work is safe and complies with all the relevant requirements of Building Regulations. Building control bodies may choose to carry out the inspection and testing themselves, or they may engage a competent electrical contractor to carry out the verification work on their behalf. Building control bodies must carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense, not at the householders’ expense. In either of the cases mentioned, a BS 7671 Electrical Installation Certificate will not be issued (as these can only be issued by those carrying out the work). After verification of the work the building control body will issue a Building Regulations completion certificate.
Keep on going - keep the b*****s on the run
Excellent - what's the URL?
Bit of a long read - over 200 pages (not 300 as stated in my earlier posts) and a bit dated as the data getting old but interesting anyway
Try http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/monitorelectricalsafety
Happy reading
Try http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/monitorelectricalsafety
Happy reading
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