My Domestic Wiring

[aptsys]

The solicitor just wants "a certificate", that's the easiest legal way to get one. Then everyone goes home happy.

Agreed. Most solicitors won't care about the content, so long as there is a certificate of some kind.


Disgusted.

aptsys.

 

[JohnW2]

Agreed. Most solicitors won't care about the content, so long as there is a certificate of some kind.

Whilst I do not in any way condone illegal work or disregard to regulations etc. .....

.... As I have said many times before, I think these alleged problems associated with selling houses are very much overplayed, provided one does not lie. As I've said, I see a lot of houses being bought and sold (by a family member) and, by virtue of the history of many of the properties, although it is often apparent that electrical work has been undertaken since January 1st 2005, no documentation (or details of any sort) are, or could be made, available. Whilst buyers sometimes attempt to use this as an excuse for trying to negotiate a small reduction in price (they'll use anything as an excuse!), or to get the seller to pay for an EICR (which any wise buyer would probably commission themselves, anyway), that's really the worst that normally ever happens. It is, in my experience, very rare for a buyer to withdraw from a purchase for this reason.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The solicitor just wants "a certificate", that's the easiest legal way to get one. Then everyone goes home happy.

If he wants a certificate for the wiring done last year, what is the point of giving him a certificate for a different job done this year?

 

[John D v2.0]

As long as this hypothetical solicitor isn't you, they aren't going to even realise there's a difference. If an electrician is called to do a survey, again chances are they won't question it.
If he really does know what he wants and how to check it then the seller can just tell the buyer to take it or leave it, and get their own check done if they're so worried.
What won't happen is an arrival of the building control police, ready to take away the op with a stiff sentence to deter others from committing such an offence.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As long as this hypothetical solicitor isn't you, they aren't going to even realise there's a difference.

That is not an answer to the question I asked.

Will you please answer this:

If he wants a certificate for the wiring done last year, what is the point of giving him a certificate for a different job done this year?​

 

[John D v2.0]

I don't see any point in addressing your hypothetical and irrelevant question. But since you insist, the point is to get the hypothetical house sale through without further expense.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

But what would be the point of that?

The OP was asking about an EIC being issued. So unless cables are to be exposed, another way to achieve an EIC, would be to reinstall or swap CU.
I know notification would not cover the fixed wiring, I know the certificate would only note the extent of the work. But all circuits will or should be fully tested, as should RCDs.
That was my point, it was in response of this:

I now have 3 x quotes of £120-150 to inspect and test all of my wiring and the Consumer Unit and provide a certificate if it all passes.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't see any point in addressing your hypothetical and irrelevant question. But since you insist, the point is to get the hypothetical house sale through without further expense.

So in other words you are advising lying and fraud.

Shame on you.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The OP was asking about an EIC being issued. So unless cables are to be exposed, another way to achieve an EIC, would be to reinstall or swap CU.
I know notification would not cover the fixed wiring, I know the certificate would only note the extent of the work. But all circuits will or should be fully tested, as should RCDs.

Yes but it would do nothing to address the regulatory problems over the wiring done last year.

So I ask you again - what would be the point of it? What would mstizomad be able to do after he had someone swap the CU that he cannot do now?

 

[JohnW2]

So in other words you are advising lying and fraud.

I haven't seen any suggestions relating to either lying on fraud. All that has been said is that solicitors may well be satisfied by being provided with bits of paper that do not actually fully address the enquiry (s)he made. If anyone has a problem with that, it should be the solicitor's client, who would be reasonable in having an expectation that their solicitor should have the competence (or, if they don't possess the required knowledge, obtain informed assistance) to know whether or not what has been provided by the seller is adequate.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I haven't seen any suggestions relating to either lying on fraud.

Well I'm struggling to understand what else they could be.

All that has been said is that solicitors may well be satisfied by being provided with bits of paper that do not actually fully address the enquiry (s)he made.

So how would you classify knowingly supplying bits of paper which do not address the enquiry being made in the hope that the enquirer will be fooled into thinking that they do?

If anyone has a problem with that, it should be the solicitor's client, who would be reasonable in having an expectation that their solicitor should have the competence (or, if they don't possess the required knowledge, obtain informed assistance) to know whether or not what has been provided by the seller is adequate.

Oh - I see.

That is nothing less than a statement of general principle that you do not believe that there is anything wrong with fraudulent misrepresentation, and that no guilt can be apportioned to the person making it, if the person to whom it was made should not have been taken in by it.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I think the point is that solicitors ask if any electrical work has been carried out since 2005 - because that's what they ask because that's all they know they have to ask.

If it has, then you say "Yes" and give them all the bits of paper you have.

They will be happy because they have asked and you have told them.
They do not come back with technical electrical queries regarding the kitchen ring circuit.

 

[JohnW2]

So how would you classify knowingly supplying bits of paper which do not address the enquiry being made in the hope that the enquirer will be fooled into thinking that they do?

One doesn't do it like that. In reply to the request one responds by saying, honestly, something along the lines of "the enclosed documents are all we have in relation to electrical work" (or, indeed, if appropriate, "We have no documentation relating to electrical work"). No lies or fraud there that I can see. If the solicitor is not satisfied with what has been provided, one can then reiterate that one has no other relevant documentation, leaving the solicitor to advise his/her clients as (s)he sees fit.

Having said that, there is actually another potential stumbling block, in as much as one of the questions on the standard TA6 enquiry form is "Is the seller aware of any breaches of planning permission conditions or Building Regulations consent conditions, unfinished work or work which does not have all necessary consents? If Yes, please gives details:". However, again, if one answers that truthfully, there really is not much that the buyer/solicitor can do about it, other than request an EICR or pull out of the purchase.

The crucial thing is not to lie.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I think the point is that solicitors ask if any electrical work has been carried out since 2005 - because that's what they ask because that's all they know they have to ask. If it has, then you say "Yes" and give them all the bits of paper you have. They will be happy because they have asked and you have told them. They do not come back with technical electrical queries regarding the kitchen ring circuit.

It's actually not quite as simple as that. The TA6 form specifically asks (in relation to electrical work since 1/1/2005) the buyer to supply one of the following:

(a) a copy of the signed BS7671 Electrical Safety Certificate (whatever that might be!)
(b) the installer's Building Regulations Compliance Certificate
(c) the Building Control Completion Certificate

I suppose they might regard almost anything sent to them which mentions BS7671 as satisfying (a), but since the document referred to does not actual exist, I'm not sure how they can know whether they have received the right thing or not However, as I've just written to BAS, if they do ask further questions and one indicates that one has nothing else [specifically not (a), (b) or (c)], then what are they going to do?

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

Oh ban all sheds, how's life up there? When are you going to come down and visit us in our world?