Neighbour extension.

[Th1rteen]

We moved into a semi-detached new build 2 years ago. On one side, we have our driveway up to our detached neighbor’s wall. We have minimal but good relationships with both neighbors. Almost 2 months ago, the detached neighbor asked to access our driveway and remove a fence panel temporarily for building work, promising to restore everything.

The work started, and initially, it seemed like a patio, but then they dug foundations and began building a timber frame extension. We went away for the weekend and come home to find the final roof beam now extends over our fence by 5-10 cm, which might increase with slate tiles and guttering. The fence, initially attached to the exterior wall of their house, defined our boundary clearly, as the wall led onto the fence and went straight down the garden. .

After speaking with the neighbor, he mentioned Building Control approved the work on the basis that the eaves of the original roof already overhang the boundary, but he understood our concern and would talk to the builders. I checked our title pack (having some conveyancing knowledge) and found no Covenant or Easement for the original roof overhang. This raises questions about possible flying trespass or incorrect fence placement if the boundary line should in fact be in line with the eaves!

The neighbor has since avoided us, and the builders paused work for nearly 3 weeks, aside from fitting some glass to the front of the extension. Recently, a 'manager' visited, but no update followed, and now the neighbor is on holiday. I'm worried the builders will continue without addressing the overhang issue.

Questions:

1. Should I contact Planning about potential trespass, even though no Planning Permission was needed?
2. If the original eaves overhang the boundary, does this allow the new extension to do the same?
3. Can I deny the builders driveway access if the situation escalates, especially since they still need to install cladding?
4. Am I overreacting about a minor issue?

Thanks for your advice!

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Your neighbours are taking the mick a bit- presumably the wall of their new extension is right on the boundary so eaves etc will overhang by 300mm or so. This would obviously affect your ability to build a similar extension.
Building control approval is meaningless here- they look at technical standards. Presumably this is a PD build (so no planning permission has been applied for)? You might want to contact planning to get them to confirm that the build actually is PD..if your estate was built 2 years ago it wouldn't be a surprise if there are no PD rights on the estate (check the pp for the original build).
The flying freehold thing- presumably their original roofline was in place when you bought? So for that part of the build you are stuck with it but this new encroachment is another matter.
How to proceed? Legal route (injunctions etc) will cost a fortune. Do you have legal expenses/helpline on your household insurance?- if yes, get onto them.
As far as i know you have to provide reasonable access for maintenance but you do not have to provide access for building work.

 

[Murdochcat]

It is VERY common for the boundary of a property to be the wall on the building. The roof over hang is always present - which means the actual boundary isn't really defined.

Boundary disputes only have two winners - the lawyers representing each side - so bear this in mind

 

[^woody^]

This is the perfect time to deal with this .

Tell the neighbour something like this ... "The eaves are over my land, but its good that your builder is still on site so that he can remove them. I'll give your builder a few days, say two to sort it out, otherwise on the third day I'll run a saw down them for you, but your builder won't be permitted to make your roof good from my side and will have to work on the roof from your side. Oh, and FYI this wont be criminal damage, just me altering your temporary builders work to avoid your permanent trespass."

 

[Th1rteen]

Your neighbours are taking the mick a bit- presumably the wall of their new extension is right on the boundary so eaves etc will overhang by 300mm or so. This would obviously affect your ability to build a similar extension.
Building control approval is meaningless here- they look at technical standards. Presumably this is a PD build (so no planning permission has been applied for)? You might want to contact planning to get them to confirm that the build actually is PD..if your estate was built 2 years ago it wouldn't be a surprise if there are no PD rights on the estate (check the pp for the original build).
The flying freehold thing- presumably their original roofline was in place when you bought? So for that part of the build you are stuck with it but this new encroachment is another matter.
How to proceed? Legal route (injunctions etc) will cost a fortune. Do you have legal expenses/helpline on your household insurance?- if yes, get onto them.
As far as i know you have to provide reasonable access for maintenance but you do not have to provide access for building work.

Thanks for the prompt and detailed response.

PD is permitted - I spoke with Council earlier but they mentioned the builder has introduced a private building controls company to oversee. I've since realised, as per what you've said above, BC is meaningless here.

The roofline was there when we moved in late 2021, both brand new houses - I would've still expected to see something with the deeds re: the main roofline overhang. However, I'd really struggle to accept that this provides precedent for the new lower roofline as he was suggesting.

I'll check the insurance policy. Honestly, it's the last thing we want to do and get into a battle, I think just the lack of consideration and 'taking the mick', which is getting to us!

 

[^woody^]

It is VERY common for the boundary of a property to be the wall on the building. The roof over hang is always present - which means the actual boundary isn't really defined.

Boundary disputes only have two winners - the lawyers representing each side - so bear this in mind

It's common when its built like that from new or built like it with specific permission. In those cases, the boundary line is defined and follows the outline of the eaves and gutter.

 

[^woody^]

PD is permitted

PD is not PD if the work crosses a boundary

 

[mrrusty]

If the boundary is not defined specifically on the conveyance documents, how do you know it isn't in line with the outer edge of the overhanging roof rather than the outer wall or the fence? The answer is you don't. You cant use the red-line title plans as they are just a general boundary, so unless you have information about your plot with precise dimensions on, the only way to legally define the boundary if you can't agree with a neighbour is to go to a tribunal, which costs.

otherwise on the third day I'll run a saw down them for you

This is not good advice, because if it turned out that a tribunal ruled the actual boundary is the edge of the roof rather than the outside of the wall, then you would be liable for damages.

There is a difference between a legal boundary and a boundary feature. A feature e.g. a fence may be on one side or t'other of the legal boundary; it may or may not be the actual boundary.

I checked our title pack (having some conveyancing knowledge) and found no Covenant or Easement for the original roof overhang. This raises questions about possible flying trespass or incorrect fence placement if the boundary line should in fact be in line with the eaves!

Exactly.

 

[Murdochcat]

Private building inspector = issues

 

[^woody^]

This is not good advice, because if it turned out that a tribunal ruled the actual boundary is the edge of the roof rather than the outside of the wall, then you would be liable for damages.

The OP stated that the roof work is new and bridges the fence line, which is the boundary line. No-one can lawfully just put something new across a boundary, and no tribunal can change that fact.

 

[mrrusty]

bridges the fence line, which is the boundary line

IF the fence line is the boundary line, which it may not be. I know for a fact that the "official" boundary between our house and some new houses next door is 1m their side of the fence, because I allowed the developer to put the fence where it is to give the houses a tiny bit more garden in return for getting a new fence at no cost. He asked permission to take down our huge scrubby trees/hedge and put up a nice new fence - it was win win, but the fence officially isn't the boundary as it was originally shown on an 1897 conveyance. I don't care we lost a smidgen of land and in time the fence will become the boundary.

Here, the plots for the houses could have been drawn up one way, and the fencing contractor put the fences up in line with the house wall because it was easiest. You cannot presume a fence is the official boundary. https://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2247

Here there are two points of view. One person says "the boundary is the outside wall in line with the fence" the other person says "the boundary is the outside edge of my eaves". No standard general boundary document defines a boundary to a few cm so both opinions have equal merit unless or until someone goes to a tribunal and has the boundary legally defined.

 

[mrrusty]

Just to add to the above, our local council has planning guidelines for all new developments that says that the minimum separation distance between side elevations is "1m either side of the party boundary", so if this development was in their area, there would be an argument to say that the official boundary is 1m from the side wall....

 

[^woody^]

These are new houses, apparently, and the chances of the fence line not being the boundary line are very slim to no chance.

Boundaries follow the line of the structure built on the boundary in context of new builds and roof overhangs, it's known as an implied easement and is established law.

 

[mrrusty]

chances of the fence line not being the boundary line are very slim to no chance

and it took me exactly 10 seconds to find an example where this wasn't the case...https://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23036

This is one of those occasions where, if the neighbour plays hardball, the only remedy is going legal with all the cost and risk that involves. There may be legal cover on house insurance, and approaching them will give an idea how likely this is to succeed. Maybe the neighbour has taken a bit more than they should, but the pragmatic approach is probably to let it lie rather than risk £££££ without a 100% chance of winning.

OP's call. How brave do they feel...

 

[Th1rteen]

Thanks for the help above all.

I decided to approach builders directly with an email as neighbour has gone away, glad I did as now found out he's gone for a month!!!! - which has p*ssed me off even more.

Email to builder was around a few points but sumarise below.

1) Lack of response for over 3 weeks since noted overhang with neighbour.
2) Eaves placement does not give justification for additional trespass onto our property. Height difference means these are very separate issues and shouldn't be seen as precedent.
3) Revoked all access to our property until such time I'm satisfied we have been properly consulted and are in agreement. (They need access to complete cladding at later stage).

Had an email from project manager this morning asking me to call him. They've agreed that the roof has been put up incorrectly (apparently against project manager's direct instruction). They will get it sorted. However, the cladding is likely to overhang around 15mm. I've asked why it needs to overhang at all? I appreciate how small this amount is however as said above even more ****ed off after finding neighbour has disappeared for a month! Apparently it's the way it's been designed and if I won't allow this then they need to do a lot more to work-around it and make additional changes to the structure.

I've said we'll think about it, however we've been nothing but accomodating to date and got nothing for it, so not sure why we should be willing to continue to be co-operative, especially given the relationship with the neighbour who has actively avoided us and run off for a month. They suggested we think if there's anything that could be offered to change our mind (I'm not sure if offering 'free work' or some sort of ££ incentive).

No mention of the boundary thankfully and I've looked elsewhere on the estate and in similar properties the fence line is exactly the same - i.e against the wall, with over-hanging eaves.