Neighbour's new loft conversion has left me exposed!

[Notch7]

Sorry for the delay but here's the external view

No wonder you think it looks ugly - the tiles normally go over that lip so you only see the upstand.
Its not sitting down low enough, Im not sure why.

The tiling battens should have been cut leaving 75mm gap all the way up and filled with mortar -fire check, was that done.....

Hopefully one of the roofing pros here will advise.

 

[Makie]

Sorry for the delay but here's the external view. Waiting for weather and permission to climb up the scaffold to inspect.
A picture paints a thousand words is my first thought. Neighbours are reasonable but I don't think they are too interested in the problem that has been imposed on me to be fair.

That gutter left dangling should be attached to what was an exposed party roof rafter, now covered & taken over by the neighbour's new guttering, soffit & facia. So the party centre line is just about where the bonding gutter upright is.

As a point of interest three doors down had just the one side converted & re-roofed too, but they managed to merge old and new tiling together successfully without using a gutter.

I have asked for a meeting with the supervisor (the company seems to sub-contract everyone in).


View attachment 178023 View attachment 178024

Cheers

I use these bonding gutters on a regular basis and this is done wrong and will leak eventually. The slates should be as close the the central up-stand as possible.

These bonding gutters have 2 lips in them on each side and both are supposed to be covered.

https://gyazo.com/acc0579bf7c5869f5424a17132e055c0 - this is how they look, so the way yours has been done the water will be able to blow in.

It should be done like this - https://gyazo.com/fcd53a0aa0a417fa4ec4dbc8afd37acb

 

[Leofric]

they managed to merge old and new tiling together successfully without using a gutter.

The roofs are in the same plane so why couldn't they do that here They obviously weren't bothered about leaving your gutter hanging too far over the support bracket. People shouldn't carry out these works without proper consideration for their neighbour's property . Just to confirm there should not be a clear open gap on top of the party wall it should be firestopped.

 

[paulrockliffe]

Your electricity cable should have been shrouded before the scaffold went up too.

 

[Flinstone]

Thank you to all for your advice.

Its ironic isn't it that the installer doing the whole roof conversion needs to follow building regs that covers insulation and heat loss and which is enforced by the council, but the council has no interest in consequential heat losses created for a neighbouring property.

How do I know if a fire stop should have been installed? Is there a building reg that covers older properties?

Here's a photo from inside the loft looking at a section of the party wall between two roof battens. The fabric you can see is overhang from the neighbour's build.



I should point out that a roof rafter runs down the top of the party wall (the one mentioned in my previous post where my gutter is meant to be attached). It is between the wall and the battening and covered by the original build cement as shown. As you can see the gutter has been placed OVER the battens and squeezed under the lifted slates - is this right?

Since the gutter is over the party wall and installed without consultation do I have any right to ask them to remove it?

I use these bonding gutters on a regular basis and this is done wrong and will leak eventually. The slates should be as close the the central up-stand as possible.

These bonding gutters have 2 lips in them on each side and both are supposed to be covered.

https://gyazo.com/acc0579bf7c5869f5424a17132e055c0 - this is how they look, so the way yours has been done the water will be able to blow in.

It should be done like this - https://gyazo.com/fcd53a0aa0a417fa4ec4dbc8afd37acb

Thanks for the links. Any thoughts about installation method when a rafter runs down the top of the wall?

Thanks again.

 

[Flinstone]

deleted

 

[catlad]

They should have consulted you before they started messing with your roof if it wasn't going to be the same as before.

 

[GoodDIYjob]

Thank you to all for your advice.

Its ironic isn't it that the installer doing the whole roof conversion needs to follow building regs that covers insulation and heat loss and which is enforced by the council, but the council has no interest in consequential heat losses created for a neighbouring property.

How do I know if a fire stop should have been installed? Is there a building reg that covers older properties?

Here's a photo from inside the loft looking at a section of the party wall between two roof battens. The fabric you can see is overhang from the neighbour's build.

View attachment 178095

I should point out that a roof rafter runs down the top of the party wall (the one mentioned in my previous post where my gutter is meant to be attached). It is between the wall and the battening and covered by the original build cement as shown. As you can see the gutter has been placed OVER the battens and squeezed under the lifted slates - is this right?

Since the gutter is over the party wall and installed without consultation do I have any right to ask them to remove it?



Thanks for the links. Any thoughts about installation method when a rafter runs down the top of the wall?

Thanks again.

This looks a bit poor. It needs to be brought up to acceptable spec and no worse than before.

I note someone else said that PWA does not apply to roofs. OK but where the works are incedental to party wall notifiable work, it is. This is based how I have seen the PWAs work in practice. In this case there is a loft conversion which most likely has involved PWA notifiable works (subject to confirmation) and the costs of any arising damage or rectification work based on my understanding should rest with the neighbour benefiting from the work.

I would perhaps have a chat with a good surveyor and then approach the neighbour as to what to do, i.e. cover his / her costs and the rectification work.

edit: Or if you want to be pragmatic and conciliatory give them a chance to fix it but I would imagine your confidence in their workers is not great and neighbours, being neighbours will probably not believe you that there is a problem or that they caused it....

 

[Flinstone]

I'm convinced the installation has been done poorly and needs rectification. My neighbour said he had asked the builder to call in to discuss but didn't turn up on the day arranged (surprise!) but 4 days later I was lucky to catch him on site. I kept it friendly and expressed my opinion that the gutter should not have been fitted and had been poorly installed.
After pointing out the semi-detached building next door to us has also had a conversion with the integrity of the tiling (old to new) maintained successfully without a bonding gutter, he went a little quiet in my view.

The builder seemed fairly reasonable at this stage and although he obviously wouldn't admit to there being a problem, he at one point said he would "remove it if you like". However as time went on he was very much pushing to add a foam to the tiling as a fix after I enquired about firestops - called styro-something (fire-resistant) I think. I rejected this idea as a poor long-term fix.

Wen I hinted that I thought I would prefer the removal of the gutter and making good by joining the old tiles back to the new, he started on about their battens now being on a different pitch and wouldn't match. I have a sample of their man-made tiles and they are larger (30x60cm) compared with mine (12"x20"=30x51cm). The thicknesses are LESS THAN 1MM DIFFERENT! I'm convinced therefore the bonding gutter was put in as a cheap & lazy approach. To show I was being reasonable I said I would think about it and not act the angry neighbour.

So at this stage I think I would like to obtain independent advice to support my case for removing the gutter and if there will be a problem marrying up the old and new sized tiles. Can anyone please recommend what type of professional will have the authority to comment on both the problem and the cure? Would it be a chartered building surveyor? It not only gives me ammunition but also helps me to understand what is reasonable of me to ask from my neighbour (for the sake of fairness even though I didn't ask for or cause this issue in the first place).

Many thanks for all the support and advice that has been given.

 

[GoodDIYjob]

So at this stage I think I would like to obtain independent advice to support my case for removing the gutter and if there will be a problem marrying up the old and new sized tiles. Can anyone please recommend what type of professional will have the authority to comment on both the problem and the cure? Would it be a chartered building surveyor? It not only gives me ammunition but also helps me to understand what is reasonable of me to ask from my neighbour (for the sake of fairness even though I didn't ask for or cause this issue in the first place).

Many thanks for all the support and advice that has been given.

Well, a knowledgeable and competent roofer or a builder would seem to have a decent chance at inspecting and suggesting what needs to be fixed and how. Maybe it is not even required had the junction been detailed properly. Notch7 seems to have some experience of bonding gutters and what is said there makes sense to me looking at the photos and it is not installed right.

However, if you really want authority to avoid drawn out arguments and a recommended fix that can then be inspected by someone independently it probably needs to be a chartered building surveyor. They don't come cheap though and you need to find a experienced and pragmatic one rather than a text book carrying academic! Ultimately the cost ought to be passed to the neighbours, so I guess it depends how you get on with his builder and see if he has a rethink and you have confidence that he can properly rework......

 

[catlad]

I have seen a lot of poor roofing work by loft conversion company's over the years were no thought or planning has gone into the job, yours is just another example buying
24x12" (60x30cm) slates instead of 20x10" (50x20cm) slates which would eliminate the need for a bonding gutter!

 

[GoodDIYjob]

To complete my acknowledgements, the post i was thinking about with the detail of the bonding gutter was actually the first one by Makie. But clearly a number of contributors on here make a lot more sense than what the neighbour builder or roofer has offered up...