Neighbour's Planning Surprise

[mrrusty]

I'm concerned that we'd have to declare a neighbour dispute.

They are going to be doing the work no matter what - they have planning. You can either be a PITA which will not really gain you much in the long run, except a load of grief, or you could take an interest, make the builders a brew when they need one, and just be helpful, in which case they will probably engage for a quiet life, work with you, and you'll get close to what you want.

 

[DIYBlues]

So, in other words:I'm the PITA if I don't suck up to someone who has made it clear that they'll do whatever they want and don't care.

Wish I'd thought about that when they asked us to replace some fencing that affected them but was not visible to us and we did it willingly.

I know what you're saying is pragmatic but it sticks in the throat.

 

[^woody^]

Sometimes you're the pigeon, other times you're the statue. It's called life.

 

[DIYBlues]

Sometimes you're the pigeon, other times you're the statue. It's called life.

I've found that out: pigeon I'll accept...as for making cups of tea for the builders: his wife wouldn't like that, she loves making tea for them, shame to upset her as well.

So, to avoid any chance of being a PITA, I'm going to do absolutely nothing unless he trespasses or causes damage, in which case, we've got legal assistance through our insurance .

If he doesn't get a Party Wall Agreement and the retaining wall causes his property damage, that's life. His surveyors and builders should have spotted it., shouldn't they.

If he offers a Party Wall agreement, we'll get the opinion of surveyors and hammer out a deal.

 

[mrrusty]

We haven't seen a photo of this wall

The retaining wall is only visible from our driveway and is in poor condition from damp/weathering.

According to our deeds, we have responsibility for maintaining the fence along that border but are we fully responsible for the retaining wall. We don't want any comeback for problems with his build. To be honest, if he hadn't been so unpleasant about it, we would happily pay what's necessary, but if he builds to the boundary, he may be utilising and/or impacting the retaining wall

So perhaps talk to the neighbour/builder and say "look - it's going to be difficult for you to build without disrupting this tired wall, so rather than going down the whole party-wall thing, why don't you dig the whole lot out and rebuild the retaining wall as part of your foundations". If he's going to have diggers and brickies on site, it will be easier for them and you end up with a shiny new wall which will look far nicer to a prospective buyer than a flaky old wall which will look like a problem.

We did similar when they built 3 houses backed on to our garden next to us. We owned a scratty large hedge (15ft high) along the boundary (really scrub trees), and the developer came round on the pretense of making sure he understood where the boundary was, and suggested at the time we might like to replace the hedge. It was fairly horrible, so we agreed a line and they pulled it all out and replaced it with a concrete post and close-boarded fence. 120 foot of fence cost us nowt and looks far better. Developer benefited as the high hedge no longer shaded his houses. win-win.

 

[DIYBlues]

Like I said: if he decided to play fair and do what he should do, a Party Wall Agreement, we will not be needlessly unco-operative but he knows nothing about building and likes a bargain. His wife told me that building works to the property when they moved in were messed up because he employed cowboys.

To be honest, if my bungalow wasn't located the way mine is to his, I wouldn't give a flying...monkey...If he wanted to screw his property up and if he does mess the foundations and retaining wall up, I'll just get a shovel and phone my building insurers.He's got a lot more to lose than I have.

Let this be a lesson to me and to other people: avoid some locations like the plague.

 

[mrrusty]

phone my building insurers

is in poor condition

These two observations don't sit easily together. If you tried to claim, it is very possible it would be declined because of poor maintenance.

avoid some locations like the plague

This isn't a place to be avoided just because we don't give an opinion you like. It is a fact that if you have neighbours it is all too easy to get into disagreements. The biggest ones hit the headlines with stories like "loses £200,000 over 6" of land". There is a massive gulf between the theory of having "right on your side", and the practicality of actually using the teeth that law (including party-wall) actually gives you, because any litigation is risky and expensive. Many disagreements on here and other forums, sometimes go on for years (have a look at gardenlaw!) and there is seldom a clear "winner". IMHO life's too short.

 

[lostinthelight]

Interesting read for those with close neighbours.

Neighbour's Rights Relating To Your Property

We look at what property rights your potential neighbours have which can affect your enjoyment of the property.

www.netlawman.co.uk

 

[DIYBlues]

Avoid some locations like the plague: avoid some house locations like the plague, don't buy a house where your neighbours can mess you about! Tbh, I wasn't over the moon with buying a house with a semi-shared drive. Why do you think I meant something else?

This forum has actually been useful because it helps me get advice and crystallize my thoughts.

The wall is in poor condition but it is not necessarily my responsibility just because my property is the lower one: These people are fiercely territorial and they have said that half of it is on their land and is therefore theirs. Not long after moving in, she started eyeing up my drive and wondering to my face whether our block paved drive didn't encroach the boundary, cheeky wotsit. The neighbour we'd lived next to for 18 years had been perfectly happy when we had the drive done.I'm talking about using insurance for legal support, not get works done to the ravages of time.

 

[martygturner]

I would point out that party wall agreements are about as useless as is possible in stopping work...as the developer has the right to do anything on their property that is legal...as a party wall owner you have very limited rights..what time work starts and stops... and garden walls are not subject to a party wall agreement.

 

[DIYBlues]

I would point out that party wall agreements are about as useless as is possible in stopping work...as the developer has the right to do anything on their property that is legal...as a party wall owner you have very limited rights..what time work starts and stops... and garden walls are not subject to a party wall agreement.

You're pretty much reading my mind: fancy looking law but nothing to back it up. I get the feeling that at the best, if the builder doesn't bother and something goes wrong, the Court may look less favourably on them and as Mister Rusty has pointed out, the biggest winners are always the lawyers, that's why I've got no intention of stopping work unless the idiot does something totally out of order.

 

[martygturner]

You're pretty much reading my mind: fancy looking law but nothing to back it up. I get the feeling that at the best, if the builder doesn't bother and something goes wrong, the Court may look less favourably on them and as Mister Rusty has pointed out, the biggest winners are always the lawyers, that's why I've got no intention of stopping work unless the idiot does something totally out of order.

I would advise you to get some proper advice..the way the law works is you have to fund any legal action, right up to the moment the judge bangs his gavel and up to that point the other side can just say fair enough we will rebuild the wall...you will get absolutely nothing no costs nothing...basically they will stall, put off the case, write letters to your sol ask for arbitration and all the while you and you alone will be picking up the tab. If they fold before judgement then you get nothing back....what are they going to have to do, put the wall back, two days bricklaying...£400 ??
to give you an idea we did a renovation for a client and her next door was having none of it, the extension foundation trench was at the party line, the neighbour tried an injunction @5k, thrown out with a simple pleading costing £500. Neighbour hired an inspector and a brief, by the time they got done the extension was up and that was that, no damage to her property and no damages to her. neighbours costs in excess of 13k...for what.

My advice is seek legal advice as the law stands with the right to development not with you. If its passed planning then they have the lawful right to develop.

 

[DIYBlues]

Must admit: when I read about the Party Wall Act, I thought what a waste of time it was:no enforcement.

I've also read some warnings over injunctions to stop work and that is not going to happen!

Like I said, we've accepted that we can't stop it but we want to protect our property from trespass and damage and this man is a PITA ( see, I've learned something from this forum) who thinks he knows it all and can cut costs.

I've read that if the developer does not implement the Party Wall Act and things go wrong, the Court (in a private suit) may look more favourably on the claimant and shift the burden of proof towards the developer .

I assume he'll need building regs for a garage 5.5 meters by 6 meters .

 

[mrrusty]

5.5 meters by 6 meters

If it's a non-attached outbuilding, probably not. If it's brick construction it will be constructed of substantially non-flammable materials, and with an external size of 6 x 5.5 it is likely to be 5.6 x 5.1 or so internally which is under the 30sqm internal floor area where building regs kick in.

 

[jeds]

The purpose of the PWA isn't to stop development. In the majority of domestic cases I have dealt with the act was unnecessary and a simple agreement, along with a schedule of condition, was all that was needed. But when you come across nutcases next door - and that works both ways - it is sometimes necessary.

My advice would be to take a good photo record of your property (inside and out) along the boundary, with a brief description of condition for each photo, and keep that as a dated record. You might even give the neighbour a copy. Then just keep and eye on what's going on and worry if/when you see something that causes concern.