New Boiler Advice

[Madrab]

Guys, I totally appreciate that you may each have an important point of view to discuss but in fairness maybe it should be done off post? I'm sure OP doesn't feel his post is the best place to do it?

 

[shambolic]

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

Let's see how long the brass lasts with condensate and acidic flue gases going through ya numpty.

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

What about all those pump bodies that are plastic.
Sometimes folk have polarised views based on what others say. Ideal is a big player that sells stack load of boilers. A small percentage of fails easily becomes a large number. Consider million boiler sales with failure rate of 2% - that is a large number of fails against 10% fails with appliance sales so say 1000 units

This is one of the things I've been saying for a while. We are a victim of our own succes 1.2million boilers with 50,000 failures is nothing.
5000 sales with 500 failures you never hear about as not many people fit them.
Ps these figures are just made up for comparison type thing.

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

Let's see how long the brass lasts with condensate and acidic flue gases going through ya numpty.

You the one who said no plastic
In it I know the sump has to be plastic but can they be non leaking an non splitting plastic look on cc recent post
Ideal logic here we go again

Do You work for ideal shambolic which is cool if so but hardly unbiased
I would say there boilers are Cool if they paid me wages
You accept these fails but what causes them in your opinion
I am interested not wanting to upset you is it a flaw in manufacture or design prob
I know you may not be able to say on here if you work for them

Which manufacturer do you work for?
I have never hid who I work for and the fact you ask makes me suspect a bit of mischief making on your end?

 

[Razor900]

FWIW Shambolic has been helping out on here for years despite the grief he got over some of the older models.

Yes he will stand up for his company but he doesnt lie for them. One of the straightest taking guys on here I don't think anyone's got a bad word to say about him.

And no, I've never met him just going on his posts

 

[bernardgreen]

I know the sump has to be plastic but can they be non leaking an non splitting plastic look on cc recent post

Or the sump could be stainless steel. Doesn't have to be plastic.

 

[gmgas]

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

Let's see how long the brass lasts with condensate and acidic flue gases going through ya numpty.

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

What about all those pump bodies that are plastic.
Sometimes folk have polarised views based on what others say. Ideal is a big player that sells stack load of boilers. A small percentage of fails easily becomes a large number. Consider million boiler sales with failure rate of 2% - that is a large number of fails against 10% fails with appliance sales so say 1000 units

This is one of the things I've been saying for a while. We are a victim of our own succes 1.2million boilers with 50,000 failures is nothing.
5000 sales with 500 failures you never hear about as not many people fit them.
Ps these figures are just made up for comparison type thing.

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

Let's see how long the brass lasts with condensate and acidic flue gases going through ya numpty.

You the one who said no plastic
In it I know the sump has to be plastic but can they be non leaking an non splitting plastic look on cc recent post
Ideal logic here we go again

Do You work for ideal shambolic which is cool if so but hardly unbiased
I would say there boilers are Cool if they paid me wages
You accept these fails but what causes them in your opinion
I am interested not wanting to upset you is it a flaw in manufacture or design prob
I know you may not be able to say on here if you work for them

Which manufacturer do you work for?
I have never hid who I work for and the fact you ask makes me suspect a bit of mischief making on your end?

No just asking you a question if you don't answer it that is not mischief its you not answering
re explain why the boiler problems occur
You are the one saying the problems are acceptable without saying what ideal are doing about it
An fixing them

 

[shambolic]

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

Let's see how long the brass lasts with condensate and acidic flue gases going through ya numpty.

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

What about all those pump bodies that are plastic.
Sometimes folk have polarised views based on what others say. Ideal is a big player that sells stack load of boilers. A small percentage of fails easily becomes a large number. Consider million boiler sales with failure rate of 2% - that is a large number of fails against 10% fails with appliance sales so say 1000 units

This is one of the things I've been saying for a while. We are a victim of our own succes 1.2million boilers with 50,000 failures is nothing.
5000 sales with 500 failures you never hear about as not many people fit them.
Ps these figures are just made up for comparison type thing.

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

Let's see how long the brass lasts with condensate and acidic flue gases going through ya numpty.

You the one who said no plastic
In it I know the sump has to be plastic but can they be non leaking an non splitting plastic look on cc recent post
Ideal logic here we go again

Do You work for ideal shambolic which is cool if so but hardly unbiased
I would say there boilers are Cool if they paid me wages
You accept these fails but what causes them in your opinion
I am interested not wanting to upset you is it a flaw in manufacture or design prob
I know you may not be able to say on here if you work for them

Which manufacturer do you work for?
I have never hid who I work for and the fact you ask makes me suspect a bit of mischief making on your end?

No just asking you a question if you don't answer it that is not mischief its you not answering
re explain why the boiler problems occur
You are the one saying the problems are acceptable without saying what ideal are doing about it
An fixing them

The size of the perceived problem is acceptable. A 1% failure rate in over a million is a shed load of failures but still well below accepted industry standards of 2-3%.

 

[gmgas]

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

Let's see how long the brass lasts with condensate and acidic flue gases going through ya numpty.

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

What about all those pump bodies that are plastic.
Sometimes folk have polarised views based on what others say. Ideal is a big player that sells stack load of boilers. A small percentage of fails easily becomes a large number. Consider million boiler sales with failure rate of 2% - that is a large number of fails against 10% fails with appliance sales so say 1000 units

This is one of the things I've been saying for a while. We are a victim of our own succes 1.2million boilers with 50,000 failures is nothing.
5000 sales with 500 failures you never hear about as not many people fit them.
Ps these figures are just made up for comparison type thing.

Ideal logic have had leaking main heat exchangers and have plastic parts in them now the earlier version was brass

High tec plastics not much different from brass counterparts. It is the O rings that eventually cause the leaks What is the point of fitting a brass component if it will be replaced instead of repairig it. Obviously brass is easily refurbished whereas plastic can get hairline cracks.

Was at ideal course in Reading to be told failure of plastic parts nearly the same as brass

Yeah right I'd sooner have a plastic part over brass not in my house don't believe ideal they would say that plastic is good cos it's cheap an they use it

Let's see how long the brass lasts with condensate and acidic flue gases going through ya numpty.

You the one who said no plastic
In it I know the sump has to be plastic but can they be non leaking an non splitting plastic look on cc recent post
Ideal logic here we go again

Do You work for ideal shambolic which is cool if so but hardly unbiased
I would say there boilers are Cool if they paid me wages
You accept these fails but what causes them in your opinion
I am interested not wanting to upset you is it a flaw in manufacture or design prob
I know you may not be able to say on here if you work for them

Which manufacturer do you work for?
I have never hid who I work for and the fact you ask makes me suspect a bit of mischief making on your end?

No just asking you a question if you don't answer it that is not mischief its you not answering
re explain why the boiler problems occur
You are the one saying the problems are acceptable without saying what ideal are doing about it
An fixing them

The size of the perceived problem is acceptable. A 1% failure rate in over a million is a shed load of failures but still well below accepted industry standards of 2-3%.

 

[gmgas]

I think this problem is bigger than you say
This is just my opinion one engineer on the CC says he fitted 3 logics for 1 landlord all the heat ex leaked so for that landlord the failure rate was 100%
Statistics can go both ways
I am an independent gas installer so have no bias but you work for the company that makes these boilers

 

[bernardgreen]

but still well below accepted industry standards of 2-3%.

2 to 3% over what time scale.....?

Fail within the first month or fail within the first year ?

 

[DP]

but still well below accepted industry standards of 2-3%.

2 to 3% over what time scale.....?

Fail within the first month or fail within the first year ?

I do not work for any manufacturer but like to see good points in any boiler (some honestly have none)
When a boiler comes with a 5, 7, or 10 year warranty and the repair has been carried out by the makers at no extra charge as it is a manufacturing (lot of these parts are outsourced) defect, does the timescale matter?

 

[bernardgreen]

carried out by the makers at no extra charge as it is a manufacturing (lot of these parts are outsourced) defect, does the timescale matter?

Yes it does matter.

Not to the manufacturer or sub contract supplier but to the customer who has the inconvenience of being without heating and / or hot water until the repair is made.

Some of the "faults" (*) are due entirely to cost cutting "economies" that are part of the design that results in components operating at the limit.

(*) although these are often described to the customer as a "faulty" component they are far too often a component which was designed to be the minimum cost to produce and as a result of cheap production is in normal operation working at the limit of its ability. Some manufacturers accept there will be failures in these "on the limit" components, they know approximately how many will fail and can amortise the expected costs to repair of a few into the selling price of hundreds. That is cheaper than designing and manufacturing a more expensive version of the component, a version that is not working at its limits in normal operation.

 

[shambolic]

So on that premise Google boy your super duper boiler would be magnificently over engineered and wouldn't break down but would cost £25k a time.

 

[DP]

So on that premise Google boy your super duper boiler would be magnificently over engineered and wouldn't break down but would cost £25k a time.

Mr Ideal, you are far too fast. Took words out of my mouth

 

[shambolic]

So on that premise Google boy your super duper boiler would be magnificently over engineered and wouldn't break down but would cost £25k a time.

Mr Ideal, you are far too fast. Took words out of my mouth

Don't call me that please I only work for them
I also don't agree with everything that they do and let them know this which makes me less than an ideal employee (see what I did there)

 

[bernardgreen]

your super duper boiler would be magnificently over engineered and wouldn't break down but would cost £25k a time.

That estimate of £25k is maybe a bit on the high side,

"magnificently over engineered" that would increase the size of the boiler. A properly designed boiler ( adequately designed ) would not have components that were designed to fit tightly with other components into the smallest box possible. Who knows, if the various components were designed without those constraints of size and shape then it might be easier to produce them out of machined metal instead of injection moulded plastic.