New boiler installed on an old system. Bodged job?** PICS **
- Thread starter sarahjones1975
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M
mysteryman
I agree that a good job should have been done, regardless of who has paid. In this case householder and the taxpayer have been ripped off. The attitude of some of the professionals on here is quite wrong.
As I said in an earlier post we cant really comment on a job we haven't seen. If your system was a combi system from new correctly installed and inhibited then its possible that it was clean enough and didnt req a power flush. The installer may have flushed it hot and cold its quick and easy to do. Like i said all warm front installs are quality checked and you can ask any questions and raise any concerns you have with the inspector.
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There are no stickers anywhere - none on the boiler or the benchmark booklet.
This is what I read, but the only time I saw any water being drained was the initial emptying of the system.
The system was installed 10 years ago. The other thing I forgot to mention is that the boiler had been leaking water for many months, dripping from the diverter valve so I guess it wasn't a fully sealed system anymore. We have 10 radiators and it takes some time to fill and empty the system. Also my bedrooms are locked so I would have thought if he had done a proper flush he would have asked me for the keys so he could open and close the bleed valves (or what those things are that let the air out at the top of the radiators but he didn't, the TRV's on these had been turned all the way down) when he was filling and emptying the system. Her only asked for my keys once when he did the initial draining of the system. He didn't open all of the TRV's when doing the initial draining and some stayed totally closed all throught out the work.
I don't think the system is totally clean as 2 of the radiators that are singles do not heat up very well at all. The doubles are OK.
The system is 10 years old. It was leaking for over a year and we just topped it up with water every couple of weeks. I would have thought that would have caused some corrosion as we replaced water and it was no longer a sealed system.
I only saw him drain the system, some of it was not even properly drained as all the radiators did not have their TRV's open when he was draining.
Can someone please just describe what should have happened. When should the flushes have taken place in the procedure so that I can work out in my head what went on.
Thanks
At the very least the system should have had cleanser added after the new boiler was installed,the system and ALL radiators allowed to heat up fully,then flushed properly before inhibitor was added.This would normally take an hour or so at least.
I would also be concerned whether he has carried out the the gas tests which should be done when commissioning a boiler.
Raise your concerns with whoever comes to inspect it.
It shouldn`t make any difference whether it`s a warmfront job or not,it should still be carried out to the same high standard as any c/h installation.
I would also be concerned whether he has carried out the the gas tests which should be done when commissioning a boiler.
Raise your concerns with whoever comes to inspect it.
It shouldn`t make any difference whether it`s a warmfront job or not,it should still be carried out to the same high standard as any c/h installation.
I've thrown most of the WF stuff out, I did surveys for them for years but the spec states the system should be flushed. It doesn't ask for the installer to look at the water and make a decision, it stated flushing.
Not to spec. Get a sample of the water taken by a reputable engineer and find out.
Then again if the installation company didn't try to run the fitters into the ground and allowed them the time and money to do a proper job things might improve.
Not to spec. Get a sample of the water taken by a reputable engineer and find out.
Then again if the installation company didn't try to run the fitters into the ground and allowed them the time and money to do a proper job things might improve.
This is the job sheet:
Replace existing boiler with new Ideal Logic 30he condensing combination boiler with a standard flue configuration
Change the trv on the hallway radiator for an LSV
Install new programmable room thermomstat into the hallway
Powerflush the heating system and treat with chemicals to prevent corrosion
Install a spirovent (dirt collector) to the central heating system
Install a scale reducer to prevent lime scale build up
After reading many boiler manuals and searching the forums, I think I have figured out what should have happened.
Please tell me if this is the correct procedure (original boiler not working):-
1) Rapidly drain the system - opening all TRV's and air vents.
2) Remove the old boiler.
3) Fit *connectors* for new boiler (but not boiler)
4) Powerflush the system throughly for a approx 4 hours or more.
5) Cold flush system to remove any powerflush cleanser/Fernox F3 residue until TDS <10% compared to tap water.
6) Fit the new boiler
7) Fill system and do a cold flush
8 ) Fill system again and add more Fernox F3, then run the new boiler to heat water for 1 hour. Drain the system whilst water is still hot.
9) Flush system until water is clear.
10) Refill system and add inhibitor.
Have I got that right or not?
Replace existing boiler with new Ideal Logic 30he condensing combination boiler with a standard flue configuration
Change the trv on the hallway radiator for an LSV
Install new programmable room thermomstat into the hallway
Powerflush the heating system and treat with chemicals to prevent corrosion
Install a spirovent (dirt collector) to the central heating system
Install a scale reducer to prevent lime scale build up
After reading many boiler manuals and searching the forums, I think I have figured out what should have happened.
Please tell me if this is the correct procedure (original boiler not working):-
1) Rapidly drain the system - opening all TRV's and air vents.
2) Remove the old boiler.
3) Fit *connectors* for new boiler (but not boiler)
4) Powerflush the system throughly for a approx 4 hours or more.
5) Cold flush system to remove any powerflush cleanser/Fernox F3 residue until TDS <10% compared to tap water.
6) Fit the new boiler
7) Fill system and do a cold flush
8 ) Fill system again and add more Fernox F3, then run the new boiler to heat water for 1 hour. Drain the system whilst water is still hot.
9) Flush system until water is clear.
10) Refill system and add inhibitor.
Have I got that right or not?
The very least that I would have expected the installer to have done was to stick the chemical bottle label onto the boiler!
As Mr Vulcan says, if the installers were not screwed for the lowest price then it would be done better.
Most of the Warmfront installations were done by Eaga who are/were closely associated with the people operating the scheme.
If an independent was allowed to quote then a £300 charge was deducted from him for "administration" but not when their associated company was doing the work. One wonders why.
Tony
As Mr Vulcan says, if the installers were not screwed for the lowest price then it would be done better.
Most of the Warmfront installations were done by Eaga who are/were closely associated with the people operating the scheme.
If an independent was allowed to quote then a £300 charge was deducted from him for "administration" but not when their associated company was doing the work. One wonders why.
Tony
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The rads would drain through the lockshield. Still sounds a bit shoddy though. Just unsure why you think the rads would not drain without the TRV's being fully open.FWIW, as typed.... pay peanuts ....
Mr. W.
if you just looking for ammunition why do you pay a reputable firm to check the work done with the quote you got from the warm front guys. they should be able to tell you and give a report on what they find.
The bleed valves and the TRV's were not opened on a few of the radiators either. I don't know if they completely drained? I would have thought that this will slow the draining at least?
My elderly parents paid £450 and the taxpayers (including my parents who worked from 18-65) paid the other £1600 for a boiler swap which Dyson Insulation (my local firm that services my boiler) would have done for £1500 and thrown in a few years servicing. What makes me mad is that they got paid more than that and still did a crap job. On top of that they did that to elderly people in their late 70's. If I had not been there, they would have probably done an even poorer job.
The things they missed out would not be detectable on external inspection. I am not too fussed about neatness of the work. All I wanted is the system properly cleaned so that the boiler performs and doesn't have to be replaced/fixed. I am in the process of getting the water sample analyzed which I can do myself. The lack of proper flushing is something that installers can skip without the customer finding out which is commonly done to save them time. By the time the boiler clogs up, the installer is long gone. During the install I repeatedly asked him when he was going to power flush the system. He just kept repeating 'I know what I am doing, I've done it before...'.I didn't know what the order of the work should be so I thought he would powerflush it later. It's only when he packed up his stuff and was heading out that I realised that the powerflush was not going to be done and it had not been flushed properly. By that time it was too late, the crud from the old boiler was already flying around my new heat exchanger!
Can anyone confirm that the above steps should have been followed and that they are in the right order?
I will be taking action against Warmfront and the installer for their poor workmanship.
You're not too far away from the proper way of cleaning it. If you have a bee in your bonnet I found going to the MP got results if customer services at Carillion didn't work. Especially if it was an opposition MP.
If you really have a bee in your bonnet pay a local installer to take a sample of system water and send it to Fernox or Sentinel for chemical analysis. Also do get them to take the filter off and photograph anything that's in there because it's what would have been left by the installer and there's probably more just waiting.
Write to Fernox or Sentinel and ask them for their specification on how to use their chemicals to clean a system.
It might bear more fruit than asking installers for free advice when the majority of them feel left out by not having the opportunity to participate in the scheme. They're not entirely right but they do have a valid point and probably most would be able to do a better job for less.
Just for clarification there is ample money to get a good job done in the grant it's just eaten up by administration; the guy doing the job is screwed on time and price remorselessly and there's not enough work about for him to go elsewhere to pick and choose even if he wanted or was capable of doing a complete job.
If you really have a bee in your bonnet pay a local installer to take a sample of system water and send it to Fernox or Sentinel for chemical analysis. Also do get them to take the filter off and photograph anything that's in there because it's what would have been left by the installer and there's probably more just waiting.
Write to Fernox or Sentinel and ask them for their specification on how to use their chemicals to clean a system.
It might bear more fruit than asking installers for free advice when the majority of them feel left out by not having the opportunity to participate in the scheme. They're not entirely right but they do have a valid point and probably most would be able to do a better job for less.
Just for clarification there is ample money to get a good job done in the grant it's just eaten up by administration; the guy doing the job is screwed on time and price remorselessly and there's not enough work about for him to go elsewhere to pick and choose even if he wanted or was capable of doing a complete job.
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