New Boiler

[mickyg]

i needed a ntc for a viessmann boiler over christmas, no local suppliers had one, but i was able to get one next day for the grand old price of £34!! for an ntc ! not sure what the other parts are priced like but I'm sure MM can tell us

 

[bengasman]

...Worcester are perfectly entitled to expect loyalty from their installers in terms of training and volumes....

Of course they are entitled to do so Simon.

The problems is that the practice of demanding a minimum of one purchase every week, pushes good, small installers who take more time for an install, out.
At the same time, it opens the door for those one man bands who just fling it in, grab the money, and run.

Add to that their latest trick of poaching my customers ( that I found ) for service and maintenance contracts, and you have a company that is going completely the wrong way.

Expecting loyalty is one thing, applying strangleholds is something else.

 

[mehran]

my first choice combi would be intergas.

only 4 moving parts,
dirt tolerant,
no plate heat exchanger to block
no diverter valve to break
no auto air vent to leak
5 year warranty on the boiler(approve installer)
10 year guarantee on main hx

http://www.intergasheating.co.uk/movies/

blows the rest of the boilers out the water in my opinion

my second choice boiler would be a viessmann 100w but if you can get the money together the 200w is a bit better. my issue with them is they are plasticity and more fragile than the intergas.

mysteryman, you should not lay it on so thick. I'm not going to whole the fact you work for viessmann against you, VC is open about working for vokera and no one give him that much flak

 

[boilerdoktor]

...Worcester are perfectly entitled to expect loyalty from their installers in terms of training and volumes....

Of course they are entitled to do so Simon.

The problems is that the practice of demanding a minimum of one purchase every week, pushes good, small installers who take more time for an install, out.
At the same time, it opens the door for those one man bands who just fling it in, grab the money, and run.

Add to that their latest trick of poaching my customers ( that I found ) for service and maintenance contracts, and you have a company

that is going completely the wrong way.

Ben have to take issue with this! A lot of "one man bands" try on here to give the impression that they do a more professional job! Codswallop! None of my engineers do a one out one in in a day. We fit magnacleans (or similar) on every job, we flush every system for at least half a day! And the job/installation is perfect. Yes we are not the cheapest out there but every installation is perfect! ( every boiler has at least 18mb at the appliance can't say that about most installers!)

I fit a lot of boilers 90% WB because I have No call backs to their boilers! Because of the volume I put in I can give a 5 year guarantee. And do you know what...that guarantee is pretty worthless because my call outs to Worcester Boilers are 3% over 5 years! When I do need an engineer they are there next day with the parts!
By the way i think you only have to fit 25 of their boilers a year and go on the relevant courses to be invited to join the scheme
Expecting loyalty is one thing, applying strangleholds is something else.

 

[bengasman]

... A lot of "one man bands" try on here to give the impression that they do a more professional job! Codswallop! ...

The size of a company has little to do with the quality of the staff and/or installs, nor did I imply this.

I was simply looking at a twofold result of their policy of pushing volume.

1.It is an undeniable fact that if you demand this sort of quota ( whether one a week or one a fortnight ) you push out small volume installers that do an outstanding job.
2.It is equally undeniable that it works in favour of those that focus much more on quantity than on quality.

I am not aware of WB making any proactive effort to improve the quality of installs based on WB boilers.
Add that to the fact that they do make pro-active efforts to increase volume, and sooner or later it has to go wrong.

 

[mehran]

I know this is not a popular view but...

I think WB is a very average boiler sold at a premium and because of that they are after volume not quality. it also allows them to pick service and repair jobs from customers left high and dry from poor installs.

on the warranty front. the correct way of doing it(imo) is been ask on go on a training course to get the extended warranty.

 

[Whitworth]

mehran Thanks,
Quite like the idea of no plate heat exchanger. Had experience of these on a larger scale clogging up. Efficient but not as reliable as a tube exchanger. Had a look at the web site, certainly the design is simple and from experience simple usually equals reliability.
The only down side is they don't seem to have the 'consumer history' in the UK that WB etc have. Would be interested to hear anyone elses opinions.

 

[bengasman]

Quite like the idea of no plate heat exchanger. Had experience of these on a larger scale clogging up.

That is always due to either poor install or inadequate maintenance.

Would be interested to hear anyone elses opinions.

All leading brands use a secondary hex. Surely, if it made a better boiler, they would all go for the ( cheaper ) way of using a biflow model.

To be totally honest, the only advantage I see is a higher efficiency, and maybe avoiding the possibility of an unexpected gush of really hot water when opening the tap.

 

[Whitworth]

[To be totally honest, the only advantage I see is a higher efficiency, and maybe avoiding the possibility of an unexpected gush of really hot water when opening the tap.[/quote]

Sorry, do you mean the higher efficiency etc of a hex or a bimanifold?

 

[mehran]

i think the point is intergas got in first with this design of copper pipes in a aluminum block for a boiler. so they patented it and apparently the software needed to run a boiler with this design.


so others would copy it of they could is the point but cant.

 

[boilerdoktor]

I know this is not a popular view but...

I think WB is a very average boiler sold at a premium and because of that they are after volume not quality. it also allows them to pick service and repair jobs from customers left high and dry from poor installs.

on the warranty front. the correct way of doing it(imo) is been ask on go on a training course to get the extended warranty.

WB will not go near poor installs! If the boiler isn't fitted correctly they bounce the job back!

 

[boilerdoktor]

... A lot of "one man bands" try on here to give the impression that they do a more professional job! Codswallop! ...

The size of a company has little to do with the quality of the staff and/or installs, nor did I imply this.

I was simply looking at a twofold result of their policy of pushing volume.

1.It is an undeniable fact that if you demand this sort of quota ( whether one a week or one a fortnight ) you push out small volume installers that do an outstanding job.
2.It is equally undeniable that it works in favour of those that focus much more on quantity than on quality.

I am not aware of WB making any proactive effort to improve the quality of installs based on WB boilers.
Add that to the fact that they do make pro-active efforts to increase volume, and sooner or later it has to go wrong.

Many of my installs get thouroughly checked by WB engineers for quality of install and they take ph samples too! This is to certify my installs are worthy and thus they can recomend me as an apprved installer!

 

[mehran]

[To be totally honest, the only advantage I see is a higher efficiency, and maybe avoiding the possibility of an unexpected gush of really hot water when opening the tap.

Sorry, do you mean the higher efficiency etc of a hex or a bimanifold?

he means( i think) that the intergas can condense fully on hot water were others cant.

on a run of the mill combi, the boiler is heating primary fluid to then heat a secondary fluid(the hot water for your taps).

were as intergas is directly heating the hot water. it makes the intergas more efficient.[/quote]

 

[thegasengineer]

I recommend Glowworm, go on their courses, become an accredited installer with them, and therefore offer a 5 year warranty.

The boilers are backed by my company, (as the installer), and we are always the first port of call for my customer should a problem arise, backed by the manufacturers' warranty Glowworm will come out and repair quickly if its a boiler fault.

Many Installers fit and forget. Many do not. We put time and energy and expense into having good relationships and technical expertise with manufacturers.

If a customer wants a cheap boiler, fair enough, they get the bog standard warranty. The boiler will still be installed expertly and correctly no matter the make, but, I'm sorry, you do get what you pay for.

In my experience, Glowworm, Vaillant (same group), Worcester and Viesmann have similar reliablility records. They're all pretty good.

As a Customer would you not want your appliance installed correctly, but, also have the peace of mind of a great after sales relationship with your installer and manufacturer. The complete package.

BG will offer 'free homecare for a year'...woo, big deal. Have a 5 year warranty instead.

Its all relevant.

 

[simond]

I can't understand this obsession with Intergas.

They haven't been in the UK longer than 5 minutes. The advocates on this forum are very small volume installers as far as I can ascertain, so the feedback on reliability is from an extremely small but vocal sample over a very short period of time.

And at a personal level, I can't see a significant diffence between this and the various combis from the likes of Ferroli and Worcester-Bosch which used diverter-less all in one designs, all of which have now reverted back to separate plate heat exchangers.

Yes there may be a patent, but that could mean anything or nothing. It certainly can't stop someone from making a boiler with a dual heat exchanger because, as stated above, it's all been done before.

Maybe we'll all be fitting Intergas in five years.

Or perhaps we won't, the internet was full of glowing stories about Keston and Atmos not so long ago.