New build wc pipe connection

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Waiting to hear from Anglia Water with the build/over near sewer agreement, they have said so far we can put the new build footing up to 300mm close to the sewer pipe and do away with the middle inspection chamber, what is the situation for the new build toilet connection, not much room there so will it be above the existing sewer pipe and drop in from the top or take it straight to the front inspection chamber somehow?


http://www.docdroid.net/gez5/img-new.pdf.html
 
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Masona,
Seem to remember you used to post a lot when we first joined the forum.
Feel sure we can help you with your problem, but our old eyes are well past their sell by date and we can not get enough information of your drawing..
Answer following questions, and will see what we can do.
What is measure between existing bungalow and new unit.
What is measure between bungalow and centre of M/H channel.
Depth of M/H invert.
Is it only soil pipe of bungalow goes into this M/H
Why are foundations of new unit so deep.
Is the fall on site plan from left to right , down to road.
Is sink gulley at back of bungalow.
What are your proposals for drainage to new unit
A plan of new unit would be handy
Regards oldun
 
Masona,
Seem to remember you used to post a lot when we first joined the forum.
Hi Mr Oldun ;)
What is measure between existing bungalow and new unit.
What is measure between bungalow and centre of M/H channel.
Depth of M/H invert.
Is it only soil pipe of bungalow goes into this M/H
Why are foundations of new unit so deep.
Is the fall on site plan from left to right , down to road.
Is sink gulley at back of bungalow.
What are your proposals for drainage to new unit
A plan of new unit would be handy
Updated the drawing, hope there's enough information, if not, let me know. The new build footing is just a guide line, Anglia Water need to see the base goes deeper than the sewer pipe, they will decide the footing depth
http://www.docdroid.net/gl9l/img-new.pdf.html

Full plan details (see post further on) Granted permission last month
 
Masona,
Have spent a while looking at drawings and afraid there are a few grey areas which we will tell you about in our next post.
Mean time need a few more answers.

In your sketch is the section drawing top right hand side showing 1250 deep the centre M/H in question.
Is the channel of centre as shown in your sketch.
Is existing soil pipe to bungalow external.
Is it cast iron or plastic.
If plastic has it got a rodding eye at bottom.
Is drain run salt glazed or plastic
Rear manhole top of run with channel bend, invert level should be 975nn below cover. PLEASE CHECK THIS OUT..
The other critical measure we want is centre of new WC as shown on sketch to the middle of rear channel bend manhole mentioned above. Reason to see if you can get a fall from internal sub soil stack with AAV into this M/H
One thing we forgot is existing soil stack vented to air
Regards oldun
 
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In your sketch is the section drawing top right hand side showing 1250 deep the centre M/H in question.
Is the channel of centre as shown in your sketch.
Yes sorry, bad drawing on my part, basically I was showing the bottom of the sewer pipe is 1.250m to the ground level. the sewer pipe is in the centre and the centre of the sewer pipe is 650mm from the left wall of the property No:41
Is existing soil pipe to bungalow external.
It's all underground so not sure how it's connected to the WC and no soil vent!
Rear manhole top of run with channel bend, invert level should be 975nn below cover. PLEASE CHECK THIS OUT..
See drawing http://www.docdroid.net/glx4/img-0003-new.pdf.html
The other critical measure we want is centre of new WC as shown on sketch to the middle of rear channel bend manhole mentioned above. Reason to see if you can get a fall from internal sub soil stack with AAV into this M/H

Middle Inspection Chamber

One thing we forgot is existing soil stack vented to air
Not sure why but no soil vent!
 
We do not know how knowledgeable you are so bear with us.
Assume at present this is a private sewer, but will become public sewer when new unit is built.
It is just not practical to try and get into existing manhole with new soil connection and you can not drop a new foul into existing foul with out new inspection chamber.
Sewerage providers do not broadcast the fact that they will allow you to work 300mm alongside public sewers, but the majority do,
Anglia Water are very hazy with their specification, how ever Thames Water do provide a decent spec and we list this below for your information.
Proposed foundations to be constructed within 1.5 metres of the public sewer shall be taken to a depth equal or greater than the sewer invert
Where public sewer is less than or equal to 1.1metre deep, no structure shall be built in contact with the public sewer manhole, and must be a minimum of 100mm from the outside of the chamber wall.
Next problem . For some years now BC have looked for minimum foundation depth of 1000 and width of 600mm.The 600mm width came about when cavity walls increased to 300mm width. However 600mm is not always applicable Read approved document H page 37 If you want your kn weight osf load bearing wall let us know. While in that document also read page 11 and measure is from finished floor level, then read page 15 concrete to drain treneh..
We can tell you exactly how to get round your problems, but you have not given the answers that we require.
Confirmation of invert depth of rear channel bend manhole .
Distance from new soil stack to middle of above rear manhole.
Regards oldun

..
 
We do not know how knowledgeable you are so bear with us.
Many thanks Oldun, I'm very knowledgeable on most of these things but not sure about the rules and regulations of sewer pipe as difference area do things differently. I will be leaving it with Anglia Water to do the work but I'm concern if this cannot be done then the new build cannot go ahead because of the sewer pipe layout problem or is there always a way round it?
Assume at present this is a private sewer, but will become public sewer when new unit is built.
It is a public sewer with next door neighbour.
It is just not practical to try and get into existing manhole with new soil connection and you can not drop a new foul into existing foul with out new inspection chamber.
The way I've read the research the new build connections they would normally like it to go to the new inspection chamber or to the existing inspection chamber at the front?
Sewerage providers do not broadcast the fact that they will allow you to work 300mm alongside public sewers, but the majority do,
Anglia Water are very hazy with their specification, how ever Thames Water do provide a decent spec and we list this below for your information.
Got an email from them off the record;
Dear Mr XXXXXX

Thank you for your email.

This proposed layout does not give adequate clearance from the existing public manhole.

We have also advised that a clearance of 500mm should ideally be achieved, however we would accept 300mm subject to a suitable foundation design to ensure no adverse loading on the public sewer.

Regards


We can tell you exactly how to get round your problems, but you have not given the answers that we require.

Now this is now where I'm thick!
Confirmation of invert depth of rear channel bend manhole .
Do you need to know the measurement from the ground level manhole cover to the bottom of the sewer pipe?
Distance from new soil stack to middle of above rear manhole.
Regards oldun
Not sure yet where the soil stack position will be yet, it's approximately 1.500m from the middle inspection chamber between middle and rear manhole. If you want the exact measurement then I can work it out for you from the plan.
Is this the information you need?

Basically I'm really more worried if this could stop the new build going ahead because if there is a problem with connections to the existing sewer from the new build wc

Thanks for your patient!!
 
Did most of post to you. Went back to drawings to check a measure and found your prelim drawings. Our apologies to you for asking questions that we already had most of the answers to.
We now note that it is only a w.c. and wash hand basin to the cloaks that is involved with the run in question..
What do you propose to do with family bathroom? Do you want us to try and design this into the scheme?
Regards oldun
 
We now note that it is only a w.c. and wash hand basin to the cloaks that is involved with the run in question..
What do you propose to do with family bathroom? Do you want us to try and design this into the scheme?
Regards oldun
So so sorry I've given you the wrong final plan, :oops: :oops:

http://www.docdroid.net/gp4u/img-0001-new-0001.pdf.html

Should be easier now!

The only difference from the wrong plan I have given you is the family wc & bathroom is now on the first floor above is in vertical with the downstairs wc & hand basin, I'm assuming the soil stack will connect the 2 together being vertical?
 
Okay no problems. Post will be a bit long and detailed. You may have to read it few times for it all to sink in.
First do not let Anglia Water do any of the work. If you are a doing a NHBC Self Build then do it all your self. If you are selling the plot on, then revise drainage lay out and leave it to the purchaser.
Leave the centre M/H serving bungalow`as it is. Grey water inlet does not comply, but that was how it was when Anglia adopted sewer.
Suggest you make new unit same level as bungalow and assume it will be a ground bearing over site with a total build up of 350mm above sub ground.
You want an internal soil pipe in the left hand corner of back wall of toilet, how ever your architect has designed the bathroom so that the soil pipe runs through where the bath is No problem move bath with taps against bathroom wall and landing. You can then run domestics inside and up stud work for shower and control above bath, and folding shower screen on top of bath The other end stud and form tiled shelf, slight fall into bath and stud and box soil pipe. If soil pipe is vented to air on bungalow then you can use a stub stack in bathroom with AAV. If soil stack to bungalow does not vent to air then you must take new soil pipe up through roof/ Bathroom basin waste drop to low level and run under trap of WC. Box pipe and skirt boxing You may have to run bath waste through the joists, so bear this in mind., also if bath waste run is longer than 3metres you will have to use 50mm waste Also before you start super structure check that boxing to soil pipe will clear cloaks and bath room windows. You may have to move them over 100mm towards front of house.
A lot of lads will find archs spot levels difficult to understand, so going to make them easier. Change datum at DPC to bungalow from 20.27 to 1.000. We know that rear manhole cover is 200mm below DPC so cover level will be 1.200. Arch states invert is 975 below cover but as we only want to top of channel this will be 925 which makes invert level rear manhole 2.125.
As the old floor plans with measurements on them appear to have gone walk about , we can only guess all future measurements.
You are going from left hand back corner of cloaks under diner to a new manhole outside patio doors which will also pick up gulley to kitchen. and drop into rear man hole.
Couple of things to bear in mind. You are only allowed 6m run branch connection under ground bearing floor slab, so you are okay.
Where foul branch pipe is less than 300mm from crown of pipe to underside of concrete slab. Pipe should be surrounded with 150mm concrete and incorporated into the floor slab. We never do it this way. If you want to know the way we do it, then ask.
Your new manhole needs to be 460mm diameter to comply with the depth you require.
Your problem will be the three quarter sectional bend into the channel bend on rear manhole We cut our own out of either 15, 30, or 45 degree bends, which ever suits best. It must be kept as near as poss to the channel outflow to function. Benching to other side of channel may need to be taken up higher and more vertical Suggest you fit this first before doing any drainage. Do not forget to allow where drainage comes through co.ncrete founds
If you want levels etc and the easy way to do drainage, then ask.
If you want the KN loading of flank wall with regard to foundation width, then ask.
General Comments .
Roof will be raised tie trusses but Arch has given no thought to roof design and as drawn at present will not work. If you want to know why then ask. Sorry, just noticed he has revised his roof plan but not first floor plan or rear elevation section.. Be interesting to know whether he can get rear extension roof, saddle and flashing under rear window.
From memory hall way is 1100 wide. To comply with M document you will need either 838 or 864 on a right turn 1100 wide passage.
Suggest you do the same on WC door. You are going to have a lot of problems with your joist spans, plus it would appear that you will need an internal steel. However there is a way round it.
Top and bottom winder stairs are always difficult to fit.. Allow. your self 50mm tolerance between trimmers and pack out according after they are in.
Other wise straight forward build
Any questions at all Masona, then ask
Regards oldun
 
Many many thanks Mr oldun,

Will print it for a good read, might have to read it a few times

Thank you
 

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