New Ceiling Fixture fitted, lights stay on, switch is off!?!

[Umy786]

Sorry for the late reply everyone - I've only just got home from work - I spoke to one of my colleagues OH who is an electrician, he feels that it may be due to the minimum load (which on these dimmers is variable due to the vast difference between LEDs) is not being met

I don't have any 'normal' candle bulbs and forgot to pick one up on the way home - he suggested if that if it works then I require a Resistor to help increase the load - I've heard that for GU10 LED issues...

I read on Lightwave's compatibility notes, they don't mention Phillips anywhere so @RF Lighting may be correct in that they're not compatible, in their notes they mentioned the minimum load issue and that 2 resistors may be required

Do any of you feel that could be the case here? Minimum load not being met

I will be buying a full wattage bulb to see the outcome, I will also take up Bernard's suggestion of disconnecting the dimmer & wiring it up to a terminal block

Sheds - I will rewire to all up properly once / if I ever get the thing to work properly & yes all the earth wires connect to the light fitting via a terminal block

in regards to the red tape etc, I did this just to identify the switch cable - will get some brown tape on it once it's all resolved (wishful thinking!)

 

[JohnW2]

Do any of you feel that could be the case here? Minimum load not being met

It's not impossible, but I would personally doubt it. Failing to have a load which is at least as large as the minimum for a dimmer is a common reason why lights won't come on, or dimming won't work properly, but it's more difficult to see how that could cause the lights to be on when they are 'switched off'. I'll be interested to hear what others think.

BTW, I would have said that to use resistor(s) to overcome the 'not enough load' problem, if you had it, would not be a very good idea at all (even though it would work). Apart from anything else, you'd have to deal with some very hot resistors (and pay for heating them in your electricity bill). The only real solutions in that situation are to either install higher wattage lamps (to bring load up to the dimmer's minimum) or else replace the dimmer with an appropriate one (with lower 'minimum').

Kind Regards, John

 

[Umy786]

Thanks for clarifying that John - I too was skeptical, only because in almost every other post I've seem about this issue, a capacitor was recommended & used - I am absolutely flummoxed as to what to do now - the electrician (or lack of!) in me tells me that It's something that I,myself, am doing wrong - although I don't know what it could be - am thinking of calling a sparky in now…

Also, with the minimum load issue - if that was the issue, it wouldn't make sense in that I have 19 GU10 LED's in the lounge in 2 separate rooms, 10 in the back, 9 in the front, both connected to 2 gang LightwaveRF dimmers. Now, when at full power, they flicker at very high speeds & make a weird noise, however there's still a 50W load on the dimmer switch & that doesn't seem to have cured the 'minimum load' issue that COULD be prevalent upstairs - May have to shell out for some manufacturer recommended LEDs which are at least twice the price - can just imagine them not working too!

John- I've seen you cure/diagnose this same issue in other posts, what would further prognosis from you be?

Is there anything else I could or should do or be doing?

I can't thank everyone's help on here enough - shame we haven't solved the issue so far

 

[RF Lighting]

I'm not sure how many times I need to say it, but the dimmer you have only works with incandescent lamps. Faffing about with resistors and or suppressors will never cure this problem.

 

[Umy786]

RF- I appreciate your help and advice, along everyone else's on here as I've already mentioned previously, however I cannot agree with your comment that the dimmers I am using ONLY work with incandescent bulb

Yes there seems to be a compatibility issue with the bulbs I'm using, however LightwaveRF have an entire range of compatible and fully functioning bulbs available, which from what I've read have had positive feedback - my mistake is that I just didn't think that others would NOT be compatible and that newer ones hadn't been tested, therefore that being the reason for them not being on the list.

I believe I will have to purchase some of these compatible ones to obtain the desired result as my main objective reason for switching to LED is to reduce energy bills, I already had an energy saving bulb fitted prior which worked absolutely fine with the dimmer, so then to go back to incandescent & increase the power usage more than previously just wouldn't make sense at all

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm not sure how many times I need to say it, but the dimmer you have only works with incandescent lamps.

 

[bernardgreen]

Pics posted below to show you guys incase I'm doing something wrong

Untitled

• Umy786
• 21 Jan 2015
• 1

It appears to be a Siemens dimmer and hence the data about LightWave dimmers may not be applicable.

 

[JohnW2]

It appears to be a Siemens dimmer and hence the data about LightWave dimmers may not be applicable.

Interesting. I can't comment on the identity of the dimmer in the OP's picture, but ...

... a 3 candle LED bulb fixture which is connected to a LightwaveRF dimmer.

... and the OP has also made subsequent references to LightWaveRF.

Umy786: Could you clarify?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Umy786]

The Siemans dimmers are physically produced the same as the LightwaveRF dimmers. Siemans were the manufacturers initially - and they did produce quite a few - and from what I know LightwaveRF received enough funding to control manufacturing and costs better and thus produced the same dimmer under their own brand name. Apart from the branding and packaging, they are essentially the same product internally.

I'm off work today so will be going to a local electric shop to gain some further advice and alternative bulbs for further troubleshooting.

 

[JohnW2]

The Siemans dimmers are physically produced the same as the LightwaveRF dimmers. Siemans were the manufacturers initially - and they did produce quite a few - and from what I know LightwaveRF received enough funding to control manufacturing and costs better and thus produced the same dimmer under their own brand name. Apart from the branding and packaging, they are essentially the same product internally.

Thanks for clarifying.

I'm off work today so will be going to a local electric shop to gain some further advice and alternative bulbs for further troubleshooting.

As you've probably realised, there is a potential catch here. If you got a higher wattage conventional (incandescent) bulb/lamp in order to test the 'minimum load' theory and it cured the problem, you wouldn't know for sure that this had resulted from increasing the load, or by reverting to incandescents (rather than LED). If it is applicable, the LightWave information posted by BAS appears to indicate that, provided the LED is dimmable (I presume you are sure of that?), the dimmer should work with LED loads as low as 1W.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The Siemans dimmers are physically produced the same as the LightwaveRF dimmers. Siemans were the manufacturers initially - and they did produce quite a few - and from what I know LightwaveRF received enough funding to control manufacturing and costs better and thus produced the same dimmer under their own brand name. Apart from the branding and packaging, they are essentially the same product internally.

Seems reasonable

 

[Umy786]

[/quote]As you've probably realised, there is a potential catch here. If you got a higher wattage conventional (incandescent) bulb/lamp in order to test the 'minimum load' theory and it cured the problem, you wouldn't know for sure that this had resulted from increasing the load, or by revting to incandescents (rather than LED). If it is applicable, the LightWave information posted by BAS appears to indicate that, provided the LED is dimmable (I presume you are sure of that?), the dimmer should work with LED loads as low as 1W.

Kind Regards, John[/quote]

Yes I thought that too. Personally I first thought it could one of both

However i did go and purchase an incandescent bulb (28w) and not to my surprise it solved the issue surprise surprise (!!)

It's clearly the incompatibility of the Phillips LED bulbs and the LightwaveRF dimmers. My only choice now is to do fork out another £30/£40 on LightwaveRF approved LEDs and see if that works. If it does not I'll be hanging myself from the new light fitting.

I did call a sparky and he said that if it was dodgy wiring it'd happens with every bulb, which it isn't and referred to compatibility issues with the dimmer.

Due to the large outlay I've shelled out for the entire range of LightwaveRF products replacing or deeming them redundant isn't an option for me so the only variable has to be the bulbs.

I'll report back once I get the approved ones. Made by Megaman apparently...

 

[JohnW2]

However i did go and purchase an incandescent bulb (28w) and not to my surprise it solved the issue surprise surprise (!!)

Fair enough - but, as I said, that could be due to the increased load (wattage) or the fact that it was incandescent, rather than LED (or, as you go on to say, "the wrong LED").

It's clearly the incompatibility of the Phillips LED bulbs and the LightwaveRF dimmers. My only choice now is to do fork out another £30/£40 on LightwaveRF approved LEDs and see if that works. If it does not I'll be hanging myself from the new light fitting. ... Due to the large outlay I've shelled out for the entire range of LightwaveRF products replacing or deeming them redundant isn't an option for me so the only variable has to be the bulbs. I'll report back once I get the approved ones. Made by Megaman apparently...

Fair enough - but can't you just get one or two to start with?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Umy786]

Exactly. It could be one if either and as I said before it's probably both.

Now the 'approved' lamps are 7w each, multiplied by the number of fittings I have (3) gives an apparent load of 21w. My Phillips only totalled to 18w. I read somewhere you need 20w minimum so we'll see with the new ones.

I would purchase one but they're only available online so would pay for P&P twice.

 

[JohnW2]

Exactly. It could be one if either and as I said before it's probably both. Now the 'approved' lamps are 7w each, multiplied by the number of fittings I have (3) gives an apparent load of 21w. My Phillips only totalled to 18w. I read somewhere you need 20w minimum so we'll see with the new ones.

The minimum varies between makes and models of dimmers but, as I said, the thing that is confusing/worrying me is that the LightwaveRF material BAS posted (if that is applicable to what you've got) indicated that the minimum power for dimmable LEDs is only 1 watt.

Kind Regards, John