New Combi...how much can I do myself?

[dinger]

I'm having a gas supply and condensing combi system installed but am getting a bit peeved by the prices being quoted for some of the work. For a Baxi Instant 105HE (recommended as good value/performance), just 4 rads (+ a towel rad I already have), TRVs and an RF room thermo I'm getting quoted £3,700+. (Typically approx £2,600 parts and what figures out to be about £350 per day labour)

Even the cheapest quote has a 'very healthy' markup on the parts alone (compared to various online suppliers I've seen).

I'm comfortable buying all the parts myself and doing all the (non-boiler) wet work; sorting all CH and DHW pipework and fixings - even wiring the room thermostat reciever doesn't look too iffy (but Part P is a sticking point!!). I'm happy to pay the going rate for sorting the gas lines + boiler out, (both sparkies and Corgi fitters) but none of them seem interested in the reduced job.

Any advice on how to proceed? Am I even allowed to do this? Another winter on £20 a week electricity bills is out of the question! But I'm also loathed to pay someone £900 for a boiler I can get for £650...

 

[DP]

OK, you do the wet work and manage to get someone to install the boiler. The boiler fitter then commissions the boiler and finds external faulty or the rads do not heat evenly.
Now we have a situation where you start blaming him as the installation does not work and he you as the rads do not work. He does not get paid and we have long faces all around.

One thing I am sure off, I would not get involved. If I am going to put my name to a job (filling in the details on the Benchmark), I do the lot or nothing.

 

[dinger]

But what about supplying the parts?

I can can get exactly the same kit for a fraction of the price being quoted.

Stuff like copper pipe and fittings etc I couldn't give two hoots about, but exactly the same boiler, rads, thermos, flues I can ALL get significantly cheaper (circa £1000) myself than their 'trade' prices.

I'm just frustrated I can't exercise my right as a consumer and get the best price.

What do you reckon mate/anyone else?

 

[Diyisfun]

I think I would say to whoever is doing the quote, that if they list the items required I will supply them. I would expect to see a higher quote has they will be looking to make the extra ££ on labour, if they cannot be made on materials.

 

[dinger]

I'll give it a try - they can only say no!

Don't get me wrong - I'm more than happy to pay the going rate on labour - all them bloody exams etc a cosher engineer has to do nowadays justifies the high rates.

Are there any other fitters on here that would accept that arrangement? And if so, what conditions do you/would you have in place before starting?

 

[HandyJon]

Some plumbers will do just the gas work, though be prepared to have them question your DIY skills.

One way is to have just one radiator done by the plumber (prefereable close to the boiler to make his job easier) and everything tested and commisioned boiler wise (except for inhibitor etc). Then you can extend the pipework to include the others testing as you go depending on your confidence level. And when all done put in the inhibitor etc.

 

[oilman]

.

...................., but exactly the same boiler, rads, thermos, flues I can ALL get significantly cheaper (circa £1000) myself than their 'trade' prices.

I'm just frustrated I can't exercise my right as a consumer and get the best price.

....................

You can, it's your right. Then you can sort all the problems if any part is missing, any part is faulty, any parts are not compatible, any part doesn't arrive on time. Then you'll wish you had kept your tight-fisted nose out of it.

 

[dinger]

Bit harsh! I'll take that as a slap!! hehe.

I genuinely don't mind doing work and chasing stuff myself - thats my point.

We all know that paying the fitter's markup on parts doesn't mean things will be trouble free for me. A faulty part is a faulty part. A phone call has to be made - whether thats the fitter or me is the £1000 difference. If I've got to drive/post the bit back it's no slower than if the fitter does it, or am I missing something? - Please enlighten me!

I'm not simply being tightfisted (it is a part though ) but, for example, I hate standing there watching someone spend a day @ £60 per hour lifting floorboards and drilling holes when I can do it for nowt (and just as well) and take the kids on a nicer holiday later in the year.

Am I being a plonker

I suppose this is the heart of the whole DIY debate!

 

[Agile]

I dont think that you understand yet!

Your quotes have been for a labour charge plus parts. If the firm makes £1000 on the parts then they will just have to increase their labour to make it up!

It is generally accepted that if any customer supplied parts fail then the customer sorts it out. If plumber bits fail its his responsibility under the sale of goods act.

If parts you bought are wrong or damaged then you will incur extra labour/waiting time above what you were quoted if it delays the job!

The way you are going I am expecting you to fall out with the firms who have quoted you. You will NOT save anything by buying them yourself!

Talk nicely to them and see what they say but I am sure you will find that most will refuse to do the work if you provide the bits.

Tony Glazier

 

[dinger]

Cheers Tony! Thanks for the honest take on it.

All 3 of the fitters I've spoken to (all sole traders) have listed labour and parts seperately and further, said they aren't making anything on the parts - I just knew they were.

I just wanted to know if the job was going to cost the same regardless of whether I supplied parts or not and if any fitters would be happy for me to do any of the basic stuff to lower their time on site (and therefore cost), so they could be off onto their next job. And you've answered both my queries.

Looks like it's Majorca and not the Maldives this year!!!

And then I'm off to enrol at Heating Engineer School!!!

Anyone got anything else to add?

 

[oilman]

I don't do gas, so I'm ok, I am quite happy to fit customer's supplied bits. It works for the major capital items, but the smaller ones are so numerous the customer can source them if they think they can. I know they can't because I don't know what I'll use myself 'til I find I need yet another something. The big benefit is that if there is a problem with a customer's part I might get paid to sort it out, because the customer won't know where to start.

As for you dinger, I'd do exactly what you're doing given half the chance (as I have done) then I have to bite my lip when it goes wrong (as it has)

 

[Slogger]

For a Baxi Instant 105HE £850 4 rads and towel rail and extra 400 max at B n Q the quotes arehigh but his labour is low he is making a killing on the parts 2200 to 2700 would be the going rate for that work up north it is anyway then again he might be the best fitter ever


out of curiosity what would you think would be a good price for you to pay if you had done your rads pipe work (water) and room stat , fitter fits boiler and gas pipe

 

[dinger]

Oilman:

hehe...

I reckon I'm one of those disaster TV shows waiting to happen!

I'm just a straighforward guy - I like things to be black and white - ie costs to be transparent. But when you're dealing with self employed tradespeople in today's world of 'regulation this' and 'insurance against that' its not easy to understand where your £1000s are going. As you must all well know.

I've got joiners, brickies, roofers (the works!!) as family and mates; I'm a techie type engineer myself so I can get most house-stuff done at bottom dollar but still top quality (until blooming part P came in anyways!!!).

I just don't have a heating engineer in my contact book so I had to have a good old honk about it!

If anyone's had experience of a similar situtation (good or bad) please add your 2p!!!

 

[kevplumb]

dont see why you cant do the donkey work
ie take up boards knock holes out etc

my old man did when i installed his heating

 

[dinger]

Slogger:

I can get all the main kit for £1400 (inc VAT) from good reputable suppliers so I thought I'd pay a further £1000-£1300 labour and £150 for a sparky. Total I expected was £3100 max (inc sundries and VAT) for the whole job.

The lowest quote for everything came in @ £1000 labour (inc sparky!), £2190 parts plus VAT = £3748.25

I reckon if they only did the gas (4m pipe) and fit the boiler I supplied (and test it ) I reckon that to be about £500 labour(????). Saving me about £550 on labour and about £1000 on parts. But it looks like the consensus is no-one would do this, and that they weight the costs on parts so the labour isn't accurate on its own.

My brain hurts