New Consumer Units NICEIC-What does it mean

[ban-all-sheds]

It will "cover it" from the POV of getting you your "Landlord's Certificate".

It will not "cover it" from the POV of certifying the work of installing the CU, and it will not "cover it" from the POV of certifying that it complied with the Building Regulations and it will not "cover it" from the POV of it being notifiable work.

 

[shakermaker]

thanks BAS, what about this assumption of mine that if you say you are a "member" of NICEIC, does that obligate you to issue a certificate to say that the CU change is safe, covers all aspects of the law etc

ta

 

[flameport]

Your assumption about the NICEIC is correct.

The point of a company or someone being a member of NICEIC (or one of the other schemes) is that they are assessed evey year to ensure the work they do is safe and compliant with BS7671.
Part of that involves issuing certificates for work done, and notification of some types of work for building regulations.

Therefore either:
1. The person/company is NOT a member of NICEIC at all
2. They ARE a member, but for some reason decided NOT to comply with BS7671, ignored the rules of membership of NICEIC and couldn't be bothered with notifying for building regulations either.
3. They are a member of NICEIC, but only for something like PIRs or other defined scope works. (Highly unlikely)

1 is very likely.
2 is not - why would anyone go to the trouble and expense of being a member and then not bother doing things properly?
3 is possible but VERY unlikely.

In any event, the work has not been done to BS7671.

 

[shakermaker]

Cheers flameport, I might be just getting played on the wording of our agreement. When I spoke to him yesterday he said there would normally be an additional charge for issuing an installation certificate.

His adverts etc definately state that all electrical work is carried out by "members" of NICEIC. Perhaps I needed to be tighter on the agreement instead of assuming that the price included the works plus the certification ?.

I would have thought that given that he knew a 3rd party was going to do a PIR, which I think posters above have said would NOT certify the CU installation, a "member" of NICEIC would have been obliged to inform me that additional certification was necessary ?

Cheers

 

[ericmark]

Hi All

Thanks for the feedback so far, just in case I confused people with the work that was done.

The only electrical work done was to change the CU to a one with dual RCD. I actually just spent a week living in the rented flat whilst I did some work there.

When it came to the Landlords certificate what we agreed was that he would organise it separately

Although it would be normal to use same firm there is no requirement for that.

& I just spoke to him yesterday and his view was that this 3rd party certification would cover his installation of the new CU.

No he is wrong what you call a landlords cert we call a PIR and this stands for "periodic inspection report" this depends on the details of the installation certificate to be correctly completed as often cable types etc. can't be determined without reference to the installation cert which will also show routes of cables.

I just thought that I would get 2 certificates i.e., one from him for his installation (as he was an NICEIC member) & one for the property as a whole from the 3rd party.

Sorry but I'm confused myself, trying to act in good faith & improve electrical safety but don't seem to be fully understanding this.

In your case because of type of work done a PIR will likely give the same details as the Installation cert but it can't be used to get the completion cert for Part P. And unless you informed the LABC before work started then only way the completion cert can be issued is from NICEIC.

Having just had some work done on my Father's house and chased the completion cert I was told this is sent direct from NICEIC and not made out by firm doing the work. The firm doing the work have to send NICEIC the installation cert for this to happen. So I can see no way they can get out of supplying an installation cert.

 

[ericmark]

I would have thought that given that he knew a 3rd party was going to do a PIR, which I think posters above have said would NOT certify the CU installation, a "member" of NICEIC would have been obliged to inform me that additional certification was necessary ?

Cheers

OK to nitty gritty he is not legally obliged to supply an Installation Cert but he is legally obliged to supply the Part P completion cert and to get that he must do the inspection and testing so as long as you get the completion cert then for you no problem as the NICEIC must have vetted the installation cert so you are home and dry.

If not then trading standards should be informed and local council building control and I am sure he would not want that!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Cheers flameport, I might be just getting played on the wording of our agreement. When I spoke to him yesterday he said there would normally be an additional charge for issuing an installation certificate.

I'm sure that NICEIC would be most interested to hear that they have members who are charging extra to comply with BS 7671.

 

[ebee]

Here`s how it works.

The Law in England and Wales since 01/01/2005.

All domestic electrical work must comply with Part P of the Building Regulations.

Certain jobs such as new circuits and change of consumer unit are notifiable. (there are others that are too).

The local authority must be notified (and fee paid) at least 48 hours in advance of any such notifiable works.

or,

The electrical installer must belong to one of the 5 schemes (such as NICEIC)

such an installer must give you a certificate for the works and the work must be to BS 7671 (Our Wiring Regulations) and within 28 days of completion of the works via the scheme operator (NICEIC) the installer must notify LABC. The scheme operator will also send you a certificate that Mr Installer has completed your works in accordance with the Building Regs.

This is not optional, it is the law.

The contractor in a scheme such as NICEIC must comply with our wiring regs which includes giving you the certificate . It is not optional.

I am with one of the other schemes, called ELECSA!

PS the installer must also offer you a (optional) warranty for work totalling £200 or more

 

[sparkyspike]

Shakermaker,

The work isn't complete without the EIC. So this job hasn't been finished.

Are you expecting to get a compliance certificate for this? If you get one through the post, that means that the electrician, or building company, is submitting work to NICEIC without testing it.

If you don't get a compliance certificate then you are being ripped off.

 

[shakermaker]

Cheers to all for the input & info

Have decided to use a firm recommended by NICEIC website to sort the issue out. As i said everything appears to be working fine but I need peace of mind

Looks like a made a mistake but will learn from it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You should still pursue the behaviour of the first company with NICIEC.

NICEIC registered contractors are bound by the terms of their membership to work to BS 7671.

Working to BS 7671 makes issuing an EIC for a CU change mandatory.

So their "additional charge for issuing an installation certificate" is in fact an additional charge for working to BS 7671, and I really don't think that they should be doing that.

 

[ebee]

I`m in full agreement with that last post

 

[sparkyspike]

Me too. An EIC isn't an optional extra!

You probably want an easy life, but don't let them get away with it!

 

[shakermaker]

Thanks all, I guess the issue is that he states his electricians are "members" of NICEIC, rather than "approved contractors"

Cheers

 

[ebee]

No no no no & no.
Wether AC or DI their contractors MUST issie EIC to you and if notifiable then NIECEIC notify LABC who also send you a Part P compliance Cert.

Your installer might be A NICEIC contractor who is not following their rules (a legal contract) or is not NIEIC at all but is misleading you.

In either case the NICEIC and Trading Standards would be interested before someone else is ripped off