New floor tiles coming loose - pictures - opinions required.

[FiscoKing]

Hi,

Just finished a wedi wetroom. Wedi board on the floor and walls.

Got a tiler in to stick the tiles to the floor and walls & grout.

Floor adhesive: Ardex 5001. This is good stuff. Used for swimming pools.

After 48 hours of the floor tiles going down, some of them (2) have come loose (after I stood on them).

I've taken some pictures of the tiles surrounding the ones that came loose. The adhesive bed does not appear to meet the bottom of the tile:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/goodproducts101/IMG_0498_.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/goodproducts101/IMG_0499_.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/goodproducts101/IMG_0500_.jpg

Should the ribbed bed cover the whole tile?
Could the lack of adhesive contact have caused the tiles to come loose?

More importantly, how can this problem be rectified?

If I leave the remaining tiles, will they eventually come loose?
Should I pull the tiles up and re-lay?

Whether the remaining tiles come loose depends on how they're fixed I suppose. I could just leave it and re-fix any tiles that do come loose in the future, but then I'd have to re-grout, and this would stand out, so I'd rather get it done properly from the start.

My tiler has apologised after seeing the pictures but I'm unsure of how to proceed. When tiles go onto wediboard, they're on for the life of the tile. If you pull a tile off wediboard, the cement backing on the board comes off (you can see some of the blue styrofoam in the picture). You can't re-tile ontothis, so the wediboard has tobe replaced. This is the story according to Wedi (I have rung them).

So If I pull the floor tiles, I'llhave to replace the wediboard and re-seal with wedi tape - which costs a great deal.

My tiler has asked me to tap on the top of the floor tiles and listen for a hollow sound. If I get the hollow sound, then the tiles is not supported fully. This I can believe, but the test is a bit subjective, and from what I've seen of floor tiles before, they can break at the edges if they're not supported there. The tap test would not detect this (correct me if wrong).


Thanks.

 

[gcol]

Oh 'eck Granville. Ok what you need to know first off, is that your tiler has used a wall adhesive trowel on your floors. A 6mm notch is not sufficient for floors and looks to be the main reason you have unsupported tiles.
The back of those tiles look clean - no sign of any adhesive sticking. That's unheard of for a powdered adhesive - are you sure he used a powdered adhesive? If he did, he left the adhesive too long before fixing the tiles. Either that or the back of the tiles has a glaze on it.
I'll be honest and say that I've not used wedi board, but if they say that if the coating has been removed them it should be replaced then I'd be looking to get the "tiler" back to sort this mess out for you.

What also lept out at me is that you have thin slivers at the base of your wall tiles - not good practice.
Also, mosaics on a shower floor might look nice for a few weeks, but will very soon look like mouldy cheese.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it does seem that you have a number of problems to contend with. My first advice would be to seek recompense from this "tiler".

 

[FiscoKing]

Thanks gcol.

I have the same mosaics in my wedi shower tray in the en-suite, and they've been there (in use) for the past year - whith no problems.

Wedi said mosaics would be OK, provided a mould resistant grout was used. We used BAL - wich has mould resistant in it. The mosaics do need cleaning every week but I'm happy with the finish.

I did wonder about the slivers, but by the time I checked in to see all was OK, tiles had already been stuck to the walls (BAL Mosaic fix). Could not pull them off because of the WEDI walls. Tiler assured me it was normal.

The tiles are not glazed on the underside. He did use powdered adhesive (ardex 5001), I watched him mix it.

How much I knock off the tilers bill will depend on what remedial work has to be done to correct this problem. Tapping on the tiles might find large unsupported areas, but it wont find unsupported edges. Beyond that, I'm out of ideas (short of pulling all the tiles).

 

[gcol]

I have the same mosaics in my wedi shower tray in the en-suite, and they've been there (in use) for the past year - whith no problems.

I wasn't suggesting you're going to have problems - just that they go mouldy quick.

I did wonder about the slivers, but by the time I checked in to see all was OK, tiles had already been stuck to the walls (BAL Mosaic fix). Could not pull them off because of the WEDI walls. Tiler assured me it was normal.

It might be normal for him, but it's very bad practise.

The tiles are not glazed on the underside. He did use powdered adhesive (ardex 5001), I watched him mix it.

Ok, then I would suggest that he left the adhesive on the floor too long before putting the tiles down AND used the wrong trowel.

How much I knock off the tilers bill will depend on what remedial work has to be done to correct this problem. Tapping on the tiles might find large unsupported areas, but it wont find unsupported edges. Beyond that, I'm out of ideas (short of pulling all the tiles).

If it's unsupported edges you're worried about; when you grout, that will fill in any voids under the tile edge to a certain extent. However, I would suggest you take up the tiles off the floor (it shouldn't be difficult looking at your pics) and see what state the floor is in. One thing for certain is that those tiles haven't been laid right so they'll be coming loose before long anyway (probably just after the cheque clears).

 

[lancenotalot]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NBikNb5oEcU

Looking at the state of that floor I would,

1.Have a serious word with my tiler about a career change.

2.Check how secure the wall tiles are.

3.Lift all the floor tiles and start again as advised by the wise one they call Gcol

What concerns me is that someone would do a job like that and expect paying for it and also that he would dare call himself a tiler

 

[FiscoKing]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NBikNb5oEcU

I will be sure to leave this playing while the crowbar swings into action.

Thanks for your replies.

I have spoken with the tiler, and we have arrived at a reduced settlement figure that takes into account the cost of repairs.

 

[gcol]

Have you discussed what he's going to do differently next time? No point in letting him do it again if he doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[FiscoKing]

It will be me that's going to do all the work from now on (in true diynot fashion), and it will be done properly, or I'll die trying.

1. Will keep an eye on the adhesive in case it goes off while still in the pot.
2. Use a 10mm trowel and lift the tiles after they've gone down to make sure I've got full coverage.
3. Leave the tile adhesive to set for 3 days before walking on said tiles. Instructions on bag say 24 hrs, but I'm in no rush this time. Better to have it done right.

 

[gcol]

It will be me that's going to do all the work from now on (in true diynot fashion), and it will be done properly, or I'll die trying.

Good man.

1. Will keep an eye on the adhesive in case it goes off while still in the pot.

You'll easily know when it's going off cause it'll start going stiffer.

3. Leave the tile adhesive to set for 3 days before walking on said tiles. Instructions on bag say 24 hrs, but I'm in no rush this time. Better to have it done right.

No need to wait that long. If you use a rapidset adhesive you can grout after 3 hours.

 

[craigmaester]

Morning people,

Can I just add to this posting please?

I seem to have the very same problem. Our bathroom fitter is an ex car salesman, turned bathroom fitter. His finish is superb but I saw him take a lot of short cuts (which were quickly pulled up). And of course the usual guff like poor drainage angles and pipe joining. I remedied these.

Our en-suite has high grade vitrified porcelain tiles, they are 30” square (I was kind of hoping these would be more stable). We have joists, marine ply, then screed, then ½” Wedi, then our tiles/adhesive.
I’m not sure whether or not the Wedi is actually fixed/bonded to the screed. Should it be? I’m just wondering whether any ‘flapping’ of the Wedi would cause tile movement.

I could hear/feel some noise under my feet the other day. When I went down to check there was a few loose ones. As I try to rock them by swaying my weight…most of them rock slightly.

He used the same trowel as for the wall tiles. I think it was powdered adhesive.

I paid him 12 months ago. Both bathrooms have been out of action (ensuit due to water tank). Main bathroom due to cracks (visible signs/chips from pry bar tool on the cracks) found in travertine wall panels (studded walls/Wedi so he can’t blame it on wall stresses).

We’ve only just moved in but can’t use it fully.

I’m not bitter now but very disappointed. I’m wondering whether this kind of case is worth pursuing in the small claims court: half of the money was paid by bank transfer so we have a trail.

Most jobs have gone pear shaped and hence redone by myself to a higher (slower) standard. I trusted my missus to manage while I was away out of the Country working.

Never again will tradesmen be trusted, unless I’m actually there in person. In which case I might as well do it myself.

 

[Richard C]

Morning people, Can I just add to this posting please?

Never again will tradesmen be trusted, unless I’m actually there in person. In which case I might as well do it myself.

I admit you have to be careful when choosing trades as some are not all they are cracked up to be but that’s a bit of a sweeping statement. So are you just having a moan about trades that have let you down or do you want specific advice? If the latter, you should always post your own thread regardless rather than hijack a 3 year old one however relevant it might seem; you will always get a better reponse.

 

[craigmaester]

Thanks Richard,

Yes point taken. I'm not used to using online forums. Yes the job was terrible and I was wondering if this kind of thing can be pursued in court.

I've contacted Wedi and I have a remedial solution to the probable damaged substrate once I pull the tiiles up.

I'll just repair then reset myself.

Happy New Year