New gloss paint over old

[johnny2007]

You said to someone asking about 20 year old doors to put on gloss or whatever top coat without an undercoat

That's your advice

Its shoddy advice wether it's one coat gloss , one coat satin , oil , water based , one of the latest wonder all in one paints .....

A year or so after a decoration you might consider putting on a solo , once , high gloss , satin paint ......but it's dodgy

In fact using a solo paint , as poor as they are is a better idea than using ordinary top gloss which is your latest answer ....at least once and solo paint is thick enough to give you a short term solution , high gloss is far thinner and without an undercoat .....your suggestion ....on older surfaces ., 20 years ...its far more likely to fail , grin , flake etc etc



That's what you suggested

There is no point in going down further rabbit holes on this matter

Regards

Sorry I can't start teaching English, so I agree with everything you say, whatever that is.

In fact, I go one step further:
Anything that needs painting must be sanded down with 5 different grade papers, 2 coats of primer, 2 of undercoat and 2 of finishing paint.
Rub down between coats.
Total cost to paint a door = £500/£600.

This is what books say, same as pilot holes and countersink for every screw going into wood.
Real world...

 

[michealangelo]

Sorry I can't start teaching English, so I agree with everything you say, whatever that is.

In fact, I go one step further:
Anything that needs painting must be sanded down with 5 different grade papers, 2 coats of primer, 2 of undercoat and 2 of finishing paint.
Rub down between coats.
Total cost to paint a door = £500/£600.

This is what books say, same as pilot holes and countersink for every screw going into wood.
Real world...

I refer you to my previous reply

Regards

 

[johnny2007]

I refer you to my previous reply

Regards

Same here

 

[michealangelo]

Same here

That's great

I will refer you to your post where you have suggested to someone who has 20 year old doors that he doesn't need to undercoat them before applying a finishing coat

It's compete nonsense and laughable to anyone I know in the trade but I am sure your wife will back up that you are always right even when you are wrong so good luck argueing in a phone box with yourself you silly sausage

For the last time enchante

 

[johnny2007]

That's great

I will refer you to your post where you have suggested to someone who has 20 year old doors that he doesn't need to undercoat them before applying a finishing coat

It's compete nonsense and laughable to anyone I know in the trade but I am sure your wife will back up that you are always right even when you are wrong so good luck argueing in a phone box with yourself you silly sausage

For the last time enchante

Again, what you quote from the book of decorators is not always applicable in real life.
I gave you the example of the pilot holes for every screw in wood.
That's what the book says, but is it applicable in every situation in the real world?
No.
Similarly, if you'd read my post instead of skimming something out of it, you'd found a lot more than "slap one coat of gloss on a 20 year old door".
Question now being: are you deliberately doing this thinking of being a smartass or you're incapable of understanding?

 

[michealangelo]

It's not the end of the world to be wrong and be corrected

A few months ago on here I said I liked cover stain by zinser

A poster called warners said the problem with cover stain is that it takes several days to cure , harden off etc and painting on top of that before it's fully cured ......? I looked into it and he was right

So he advised the use of two quick drying coats of zinser bin , then a quick drying acrylic .....all done in a morning or afternoon

I learnt something

In your case you said to someone seeking advice on 20 year old gloss surfaces .....shiny , faded .....to sand then apply gloss

No undercoat needed .....

That's clearly not good advice even if you have got away with it ....no bond for the top coat to adhere to , no obliteration of previous surface which after 20 years ain't going to be great, yellowing



Crown fastflow and Johnstones Aqua are used a lot these days and the people who make those paints ......used by most people who decorate for a job .....along with leyland etc ..... do research and testing before releasing a product

They say that if you are going to use these paints then they say use either a recognised undercoat under the top coat or two coats of the top coat , the first basically being an undercoat

If you want to either suggest these paint manufacturers and the vast majority of reputable decorators who key , undercoat and top coat surfaces are wrong and you are right then I would suggest you get in touch with crown etc and argue with them

I am sure you can come up with occasional examples ...yours ...where you have got away with sanding a old gloss surface , applying no undercoat and the top coat has stuck but that's not a defence to say to someone that it's fine and ...your words ....no undercoat needed ....that sort of advice is daft

but it's clear that you won't accept this so it's pointless me wasting any more energy

 

[johnny2007]

Paint technology has advanced.
Have you tried removing any good modern paint stain from masonry or wood?
It's impossible.

It depends how bad they are.
My 25 years old door are still pristine, a few nibs but from a 2 foot distance they're perfect.
To repaint them a quick rub and 1 coat of paint should be absolutely fine.

This is the key post.
Read it.
I mean, read ALL of it.
Also, google the word "should", "pristine" and anything else you're not familiar with.

 

[michealangelo]

This is the key post.
Read it.
I mean, read ALL of it.
Also, google the word "should", "pristine" and anything else you're not familiar with.

You are clearly not familiar with being corrected

Your advice is not correct and you have offered it as a general do it all approach

Which is even less appropriate

I know that all the decorators I have worked with over that are worth a shake would never use a one coat paint or use a top coat paint as a single coat ....wether it's going on to an abraded surface or not

The very bare minimum these days would be to use a decent adhesive primer and then your gloss , or one coat paint or whatever

But even that is poor if looking for durable finish

You can tell me till you are red in the face that your finish paint looks great but I have never seen it

But i have seen plenty of DIY one coat jobs .....which is what you have told this guy to do .....key .....don't bother with undercoat ...paint with gloss ....no undercoat needed

And they generally don't work , don't cover the surface and don't last

So I will wrap this up by saying you may have been lucky but it's good advice that people need and yours wasn't


If you still want to argue either pm me although you will get the same answer or carry on here on your own

 

[johnny2007]

You are clearly not familiar with being corrected

Your advice is not correct and you have offered it as a general do it all approach

Which is even less appropriate

I know that all the decorators I have worked with over that are worth a shake would never use a one coat paint or use a top coat paint as a single coat ....wether it's going on to an abraded surface or not

The very bare minimum these days would be to use a decent adhesive primer and then your gloss , or one coat paint or whatever

But even that is poor if looking for durable finish

You can tell me till you are red in the face that your finish paint looks great but I have never seen it

But i have seen plenty of DIY one coat jobs .....which is what you have told this guy to do .....key .....don't bother with undercoat ...paint with gloss ....no undercoat needed

And they generally don't work , don't cover the surface and don't last

So I will wrap this up by saying you may have been lucky but it's good advice that people need and yours wasn't


If you still want to argue either pm me although you will get the same answer or carry on here on your own

You can't read then.
No worries.

 

[michealangelo]

You can't read then.
No worries.

I can read it's just you are a know all and clearly think you know more than trained decorators



I suppose if you get stopped by the police you will know more about the law than then and then eventually the judge

If you want to continue arguing do it in your own head or pm me I am not interested in any more online conversation with you

 

[johnny2007]

I can read it's just you are a know all and clearly think you know more than trained decorators



I suppose if you get stopped by the police you will know more about the law than then and then eventually the judge

If you want to continue arguing do it in your own head or pm me I am not interested in any more online conversation with you

Yes, I do know more about law than most police officers, but then I'm no expert in many other subjects, including decorating.
Ask someone to read what I wrote so they can explain to you in simple terms what I meant.