New House - Old Ideal Mexico boiler - advice please

[shocko]

Dear All,

Am new to this forum so I am grateful for your advice. I have just bought a house (3 bedroom detached) which has an Ideal Mexico boiler in the celler area. There is a programmer attached to the wall nearby and a broken thermostat controller in the hallway. There appears to be a pump or something similar on the right hand side above the boiler.
In addition, there is a black water tank and a large cylinder in the loft space and another one of those pump things in a cupboard on the first floor. Plus lots and lots of piping.

I have been reading on here and so im assuming I have a vented low pressure system with an immersion heater in the loft?
At present I cant get it to work and heat the radiators although the actual boiler seems to be on and heating water as some of the pipes are warm. Its probably not working as the thermostat control appears to be broken. I have an engineer coming to look at it on friday.

So can some kind person explain my system to me please? I can attach photos of the cylinder set up upstairs later today if that will help? By reading here, it appears it might be a good idea to keep the Ideal Mexico boiler if its working even though the efficiency will be far lower than newer boilers. How should i use my system most efficiently as I am a single person not needing lots of hot water everyday...

Your advice is greatly appreciate...

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• shocko
• 20 Sep 2016

View media item 98377View media item 98376

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

First and foremost, get the boiler serviced and checked by a Gas Safe engineer. It is of the open flued type, and correct maintenance is vital to ensure it is operating safely, and not dangerous.

I think some more photos may be needed, at the moment the roomstat looks knackered, that should be fairly easy to replace, and may account for the lack of central heating. However, the hot water is set to off, and without knowing the exact set up, (unsure what the 'other' pump is for), it is difficult to say what else may/may not be happening. I am confident it is a open vented system, by currently unsure as to if you have gravity hot water circuit/pumped central heating, fully pumped system, or something else.

I am assuming you have hot water at present, and from the mention of an immersion heater, that is providing the hot water?

 

[Agile]

During the summer it would probably be far cheaper to just use the immersion heater for hot water.

At least the system is a lot cleaner than many I have seen!

But do get it serviced and advice on how best to use it.

You DONT need to replace it as it is very reliable, just inefficient!

Tony

 

[DP]

Would seem heating system either S or Y plan
With CH light on on the programmer, gravity would normally Fire HW too ( unless Aux switch in CH MV Firing the boiler)

 

[shocko]

Thanks everyone. Im still unsure how this system works - see photos below for more details. ....

This is the pump/valve next to the boiler

This is the control on the boiler

Pump/valve in first floor cupboard

cylinder in loft with a ?white cylinder attached on top of it?!?

controls attached to cylinder

label on cylinder

??temperature adjuster on cylinder

water tank in loft??

 

[shocko]

Sorry for the large photos....

The boiler is set to OFF but the boiler still sounds like it is running and 2 of the radiators were ON and HOT today in the conservatory - all other radiators were cold. Also the dial on the cylinder in the loft appeared to be set at 70C but the cylinder felt cold although this may be due to the insulation round it.

So in simple terms is someone able to explain when my boiler heats things and when my cylinder heats the water? If i switch the cylinder dial to 0 and my boiler to OFF, then everything should be off right?

Thank you again for all your help and advice...

 

[Steelmasons]

Programmer is set to heating ON.....boiler stat is OFF.....radiators are getting warm due to 'robbing' the cylinder of hot water.....
Throw those motor valves in the skip...
Room stat is possibly calling for heat due to temp dial inoperative.

 

[shocko]

What should i ask the engineer when they come to look at the system? again an understanding of my system from any experts out there would be beneficial. thank you

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

It is difficult to work out exactly what's what from the description and photo's provided. You have some sort of pumped system, although I am unsure why there are 2 pumps, and a motorised valve. Really need the pipework tracing, and if you could put some pictures up with pipes labelled as to where they go, it may help slightly.

The white cylinder on top of the HW cylinder is an expansion vessel for the HW cylinder. It is of the unvented type, so requires an annual service by a 'G3' accredited installer to ensure it the safety devices fitted are working ok.

 

[shocko]

Hi Hugh, Thank you for your response. Unfortunately i cant trace the pipes at all as they go under the floor, through the walls and up into the loft behind walls .
Does it look like the following :

1) The programmer sets out the time when hot water and the radiators go on.
2) The radiators will heat up if the thermostat is showing a temp below the set temperature and the TRVs locally are saying the radiator needs heat. Otherwise the radiators will stay cold and the boiler stays off?
3) The hot water is heated by the boiler continuously when the programmer is timed for hot water to be on. It is sent to and stored in the cylinder. When the water drops below the temp setting on the cylinder, it is sent back to the boiler to be reheated OR does it use the immersion heater to heat this water locally? Does the whole cylinder fill up with hot water as its a massive 180litres?
4) How do i use this system the most efficiently as i am living on my own at present and my hot water requirements are basically 20 mins in the morning and maybe 20 mins in the evening. My radiator requirements are probably 2 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the evening.

Again, your advice is greatly appreciated...thank you!

 

[DP]

Time the cylinder to be heated when heating off. Cylinder only needs to be on prior to hot water requirement so eg heat water before heating comes on in the morning or the evening. Does the cylinder really need to be kept topped up?

For heating look at programmable room thermostat so heating is provided for frost protection, background heat or comfort level. This maintains comfort level but saves a little more fuel

With split times between heating and hot water, a bit more saving

TRVs in rooms ( set for room temperature not at max like some are) that heat naturally from sun or other heat sources.

Zone bedroom and living rooms with motorised valves if possible so bedrooms only get heated when in use

Look at Evohome. Now you have multiple zones that heat to your needs only

What needs achieving is to maintain comfort level and reduce fuel consumption

 

[shocko]

Thanks DP!

So if i set the heating to be on for 2hours in morning and 4 hours in the evening and my hot water usage is during the same times, do i need to programme the water to be on too? What temp do i set on the thermostat that is attached to the cylinder? How do i stop 180 litres of hot water being constantly stored in the cylinder when i really need nothing like that?

Thanks

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

1. Yes, programmer controls times heating and hot water are on.
2. Yes, assuming system is operating correctly.
3. The boiler circulates hot water through a coil of pipe inside the cylinder, which in turn heats the water in the cylinder. It is a modern insulated cylinder, so heat losses are reduced, but the boiler will cut in during timed 'On' periods to maintain the set temperature on the cylinder stat. (This is recommended to be about 65 °C to prevent the development of Legionella bacteria.) If the immersion is switched on, then whichever is available (boiler or immersion) will cut in as required to heat the water. Usual practice is to let the boiler heat the water and keep immersion as a backup as gas is cheaper, (unless your using overnight cheap rate electricity for the immersion.)

The whole cylinder will be heated, but bear in mind this system has been designed for the size of the house, assuming 4-5 occupants and multiple baths/showers being needed.
4. At present you will need to keep the cylinder topped up to provide hot water as required, otherwise you'll be waiting for it to heat up some water each time you require it. I have a similar set up here, the majority of the time I am here by myself, but when my daughter comes home from University, she takes numerous baths, and a cylinder full of hot water is vital!

A Combi boiler may be more suited to your minimal hot water requirements at present, but you also need to think of future requirements for the property. If it is to become a family home again in the future, then a combi may not be suitable again.

 

[shocko]

Thats great - thank you for your answers...

So I plan to do the following - please correct me if i am wrong...

1) Keep the heating on 2hours in the morning and 4 hours in the evening and this way i dont need to set any seperate hot water timings as all my hot water usage will all be during these times.
2) Use the +1hr button if i need additional heating time or hot water as a one off
3) Keep the immersion switch off until i just need hot water in the summer months.
4) Set the hot water cylinder to stay at 65C to reduce chance of bacteria forming

Questions :
1) do i need to do anything with the black tub of water sitting in the loft?
2) Without changing my system, is there a way to use the hot water more efficiently than keeping a cylinder full ready all the time? I dont mind waiting to use it if thats a better and cheaper way to do it?
3) Should my boiler switch off completely when not in use? I ask this because in the last few days it has been on (as in making a heating noise) permanently - i asumme its keeping all that water hot int he cylinder is it?

Im taking bad to this as my old house had a combi boiler ( for more bedrooms and bathrooms than this property) and i could switch it off fully between hot water and heating requirements and so the cost was minimal.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Firstly, 1. Hot water should be able to be heated independently of CH, I's set water to 'On' for the hour prior to when you need it. That should give you ample HW and keep gas usage there to a minimum.
2. Yes.
3. Yes, but some homework to see which method, (Boiler or immersion) is cheaper may be wise.
4. Yes, check cylinder stat is operational and correctly positioned. (Recommended to be about 13rd of the way up the cylinder.)

Answers.
1. 'Black tub' is the 'feed and expansion cistern for the CH system. Need a lid and the cistern and pipework insulating for frost protection.
2. Set the HW to come on an hour before you need to use it each end of the day, should top the cylinder up to provide what you need.
3. If the boiler is on outside the timed settings on the programmer then there is a problem, it is getting a supply from somewhere, you will need to check what's going on, and to be honest, if you're staying, a upgrade of controls at a minimum would be beneficial I think.

Roomstat needs replacing anyway, so I'd get cylinder stat, all other controls, and wiring checked for correct operation. Do you get hot water with programmer ON to HW and immersion OFF?