New toilet fitted - low water level

[Gorby]

Ah well, we do have a washbasin but it hasn't been connected to the waste pipe yet ! Should be done this week. You're right, the basin waste pipe will connect into the soil pipe at the back of the toilet. Do you think this might assist things with the toilet ?

By the way, yes the toilet waste goes straight outside into the drain under the manhole cover.

 

[tryitandsee]

Just make sure the plumber fits an anti syphon trap at the basin.

Just read your post again, it was 2feet of pipe, not 2m. The water would shoot through so fast it would sound like a water gun firing off. (Never seen a water gun, just made that up )

 

[Gorby]

The sink came with a 'bottle trap' - is that the same as an anti syphon trap ?

When we flushed the toilet it did flow quite fast down the drain but not at the speed of a water gun (not seen one either).

 

[tryitandsee]

No they are not the same. try this link to see,

http://www.ngsplastics.co.uk/anti-syphon-bottle-trap--sidoffer

 

[Nige F]

Ok...Sounds possible about the plug of water . Back to the start. the wc downstairs is a brand new setup . Maybe it`s just a design problem with the pan . These low volume flush ones can have smaller internals . I think the addition of a basin wastepipe will help... and I would use a Hep V O waste valve in place of the trap ( bottle or otherwise). That will silently let air in when it needs to and not let any air/smells back. Last resort- camera the drain run. Sounds like everything has been done to good practice so far.

 

[Gorby]

OK I have more news to report.

The kitchen sink and washing machine both empty into a drain that links into the drain under the manhole cover. The kitchen sink drain runs up to the toilet and then into the drain (don't know if the two link in or not). Last night when I flushed the toilet the popping noise came from under the floor - between kitchen sink outlet and the toilet. I could also feel it under my feet. By the way this only happens on a long flush not on a short flush.

Do you think this is an air flow thing ?

The bottle trap came with the sink as part of a package and is already fitted.

 

[tryitandsee]

We are all guessing at what might be your problem

Yes all works to date have been inspected by the building inspector - but she hasn't been to sign them off yet.

Phone your Building inspector and ask her to come and explain what she has inspected and make sure she hears the 'popping' noise you describe. In an ideal world, she should have inspected the drains before they were covered/backfilled, after all, that's what they are paid for.

 

[Agile]

I dont think its a good idea to expect the Building Inspector to be a drainage trouble shooter.

It seems pretty obvious that the flush is "pulling" on the water trap in the toiler or on a "trap" which has inadvertently been formed elsewhere.

Toilet drainage is very simple and if the pipework were exposed then it should be immediately obvious where the problem is.

Connecting a basin to the drain at the toilet is likely to also "pull" on the basin trap.

An air admittance valve will probably stop this problem but does not resolve the apparent layout fault.

Tony

 

[tryitandsee]

I dont think its a good idea to expect the Building Inspector to be a drainage trouble shooter.

Now I would have agreed with you if you hadn't expected the Building Inspector to be a Surgeon, specializing in open heart surgery.

 

[Gorby]

OK - yesterday we had a look at the siphon and the bit that sits over the toilet (that lets the water into the pan), and it is that that is making the noise.

After it has let the water go (when flushed) the tall thing (sorry don't know what it's called) draws back up and as it does so it shakes and makes a noise. It looks like it makes the seal to stop any more water going down the pan. Is it faulty or is it a design issue ?

The toilet was from Wickes - we paid over £200 for it so I don't expect problems like this.

 

[Agile]

Your original complaint seemed to be mainly that then the water level was low in the toilet pan.

The assumption we made was that the waste pipe was sucking the water out and that made the noise and caused the low level.

Now it seems that its the cistern that makes the noise and the water level is not so relevant. Many toilet cisterns make a noise, whats normal and what is not is probably a matter of personal judgement.

Tony

 

[Gorby]

Yes the plumber had a look at the water level and said he thought it was OK - you're right it is about personal judgement. It looks low because it sits below the point where the curve is at the bottom of the pan. But I've had a look at others (not obsessively, but just in passing !) and some of them seem low too.

So, think I'll leave it be and see how it goes.

Thanks for all your comments.

 

[Agile]

I meant that the level of noise is a personal judgement of whats expected as moving water always makes some noise and much more when air is involved.

The water level in the toilet bowl is fixed by the design as it runs out above a certain level.

This level in the bowl can be sucked out quickly as we have suggested and result in a lower level than the design level.

Tony

 

[tryitandsee]

Certainly sent us all on a wild goose chase here!

The cistern float arm that operates inside the cistern have many new designs, some are better than others.

You can be unlucky and have a noisy one, they sometimes have an adjustable stabilizing arm that adjusts to stop excessive vibration/movement. hopefully your plumber will make these final adjustments, or replace the innards with a different design.