Newby Needs Help - Stopcock Issue

[Big John]

Hi All,

We recently employed a plumber to fix our leaking stopcock (located underneath our kitchen sink). We live in an old Victorian cottage and I thought the stopcock looked a bit shabby and warrant replacing. After the plumber arrived, he had a look at the problem, unscrewed some bits and bobs and put plumbing tape into the thread of the stopcock (which took about 10 mins) saying that would solve the problem. That cost £70+vat - but we were happy that the problem had been solved.

Less than 4 months has passed and we have discovered the problem has come back. We discussed it with the plumbing company and they will not redo the job unless we pay them for their time, which frankly p*ssed me off!

My question is, can I do this myself? I'm not sure whether I am allowed to turn the mains water off outside unless I'm qualified.

Can anyone advise me? Or do I just need to bite the bullet and get the plumber back in?

Many thanks for your help.

John

 

[Softus]

John

You're perfectly entitled to turn off the service valve outside your own house.

Where is the stopcock leak coming from? A compression joint or the gland on the spindle?

BTW, if I'm right about what your plumber did, £70 +V is a diabolical rip-off, especially since they refuse to rectify what they neglected to do right in the first place. Why not ask them for the terms of their warranty, in writing, and then seek compensation.

 

[Big John]

Hi Softus,

The £70+V was the minimum call-out charge (1 hour) and I'm not sure I'm going to get any further than I have complaining. I have tried, but have not faith in the company.

Without knowing the terminology, I would say a gland on the spindle if that's located at the top and is the wheel that opens and closes the valve.

I'd love to have a go at the job myself - I've got my collins manual after all.

Thanks for the advice. Any more tips and suggestions would be welcome.

John

 

[Softus]

The £70+V was the minimum call-out charge (1 hour)

F*** me! I don't charge that even for two hours

...and I'm not sure I'm going to get any further than I have complaining. I have tried, but have not faith in the company.

If you decide that you want to get your money back, just ask - on the back of an unbroken run of successes I'm happy to guide you in the process.

Without knowing the terminology, I would say a gland on the spindle if that's located at the top and is the wheel that opens and closes the valve.

OK. It sounds like a common problem, which is a worn gland. Your previous 'plumber' probably just used some PTFE to seal the gland - works a treat as a temporary fix. Worth £82.25? I think not.

So, open your stop cock as far as it will go, with reasonable force. This will 'backseat' the washer, which usually stops a gland leak.

BTW, this is contrary to the usual advice, which is always to back away from wide open by about half a turn, which is aimed at preventing scale from jamming the valve fully open. However, you have to choose the lesser of the two evils.

If that works, then go and buy a brand new stop cock - the best quality that you can find. Pegler brand, for example.

Next, turn off your existing stop cock. If it works, continue, otherwise go and shut off the service valve outside your house.

Next, leave your existing stop cock in place, cut into the pipework above it, and install the new one.

So, you now have two stopcocks. Open the one in the road, open your old one, back seat it, and never touch it again. When you need to shut off the mains, use the lovely shiny new one. When that wears out, in a couple of decades time, don't even remove the stopcock, just replace the body. if you wanted to you could even buy an extra one now to make sure of compatibility.

 

[ChrisR]

Caution - if the pipe coming out of the floor is lead, don't wiggle it. If you're unlucky it'll crack.

I don't think £70 for a jobbing work call out is that dear, if you look at the figures.

Very very round numbers:
Total number of working weeks in a year, after hols, courses, sickness etc about 40. WOrking days per week, say 4 (ie a lot of time spent doing office stuff, getting parts, etc, probably 8hrs, = 1 day per week). Means about 32 weeks of full work equivalent.
Overheads several thou a year, = couple of hundred a week
Pay, just over national average, say 32k pa
So you need to clear 1200 a week, 240 a day
How many paid hours a day if doing callouts? 4 maybe. Sometimes less. So that's 60 an hour without paying for office staff.

 

[Nige F]

Have to agree with Chris.....on number of callouts a day.....spent a few years doing just that, tho` employed. And with the best intentions( yes, I was concientious ) I could only get 4 in a day averaged , with the travelling etc. Just one caveat... the stopcock outside may have a strange hexagonal cap on it ........best to call the water board to turn off, and on for you...usually F.O.C. they can get "funny" about these

 

[fitz1]

ring the said company up and ask if they guarantee their work.should be min of 12months unless otherwise stated.

 

[breezer]

should be min of 12months unless otherwise stated.

the last part of your sentence is the correct bit.

you would think that all work by anyone is g'teed for 12 mths, not so, i suggest you read the small print on the back of the invoice.

an example would be:

xyz co suppiled and installed an outside light, the lamp fails, small print says consumable items not covered under waranty.

i know its not like for like, but you see what i am getting at, read the small print

 

[Big John]

Hi All,

I checked the Ts & Cs on the invoice and it doesn't mention guarantees on work. I left a snotty message on their voicemail as they have failed to call me back a week after they said they would. I'll keep pushing, but I don't fancy my chances.

Back to the stopcock and responding to Softus' advice...

I've opened the valve to the maximum, but the leak is just as heavy as before.

Also, I don't think there is room along the piece of pipe to fit another stopcock... water comes into the kitchen from outside (along a solid thick pipe, possibly lead, which has a 5" vertical piece which then has a 90 degree top which connects to a slimmer standard pipe (about 7" in length which has the stopcock on it) then almost immediately is tied up with the kitchen sink's plumbing.

Doeds that mean I have to go about this differently, or am I being a complete muppet?

Thanks a lot.

John

 

[Softus]

I checked the Ts & Cs on the invoice and it doesn't mention guarantees on work. I left a snotty message on their voicemail as they have failed to call me back a week after they said they would. I'll keep pushing, but I don't fancy my chances.

Leaving aside the moot issue of the callout charge, I would say that you've been ripped off, since the fault remains.

I've opened the valve to the maximum, but the leak is just as heavy as before.

Also, I don't think there is room along the piece of pipe to fit another stopcock... water comes into the kitchen from outside (along a solid thick pipe, possibly lead, which has a 5" vertical piece which then has a 90 degree top which connects to a slimmer standard pipe (about 7" in length which has the stopcock on it) then almost immediately is tied up with the kitchen sink's plumbing.

Doeds that mean I have to go about this differently, or am I being a complete muppet?

The ideal solution would be that you find a stopcock valve that will fit the existing body. You can then isolate in the road/pavement and change the valve. However, if the incoming pipe is lead that you'll need to be extremely careful to avoid damaging it - it will be very reluctant to bend after all these years.

Worst case? You'd have to replace the final section of the incoming main where it enters your house. If this is starting to sound daunting, then you need a professional plumber. But this time find one that someone you know is happy with.

 

[ChrisR]

(along a solid thick pipe, possibly lead, which has a 5" vertical piece which then has a 90 degree top which connects to a slimmer standard pipe (about 7" in length which has the stopcock on it)

WHat's the slimmer pipe made of. May need scraping to find out cos they all go black! If it's copper , jolly good.
How much pipe is there before the stopcock? Sounds like there may be enough to get a freezer in there?

Yes it would take someone with experience of his kit to do it!

Pro tem you could repeat the job you've paid for, but do it better. Tap full open, clean shaft with coarse wire wool. Undo gland nut - it should slide up the shaft. Pick into the groove below the nut and get out anything loose.
Just to prove I did learn something ffom C&G this is where you put your "soft tallow and string" or these days, ptfe tape. Not too tight cos it has to squash, twist it into string first, and about 10 - 20 turns. Then screw the gland nut back in. You can always undo and add more; unless the earlier stuff is shredded you can leave it there.

Anyone ever tried Loctite 155 ptfe string stuff in that application?

If you want to try a new body then buy a British made (or at least apparently British company, like Conex or Prestex) stop cock, with female bsp threads in the ends. Much better chance of the internal thread being the same as the old one.