I wouldn't normally ask the the customer to pay my normal charges if I failed to identify a fault. I'd want the call out charge but I'd compromise on the hourly charge to try to be fair. The trick is to identify very quickly if it looks like one of those really difficult ones and then make it clear to the customer than any further investigative work and repair attempts will have to be paid for even if it doesn't resolve the problem.I'll join the queue
Nightmare
- Thread starter mark/uk
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I'm a reasonable person, i called him in good faith and when he came and did the job it took about an hours or so, although i thought £115 was a little steep for two little bits i was happy that my heating was working although it turned out to be for half an hour.
When i called him back he tinkered about with it again got it going and said the water pump looks iffy, then after it leaked from the bottom nut that holds it in i called him again and told him i wasn't happy because of the price i had paid him for a job and that to me the job has only increased in problems, he took a little offence to this and said he had been doing it for 20 odd years or so and that his judgement was better then mine.
He did come out again and this is the time he messed about with the water pump heads changing the old one for another one that he had, he had to modify it to make it fit but it still leaks (i had no leaks on the boiler before hand) i had to dash out of the house of this 3rd visit so i only saw him for 10 minutes or so and left him to it.
At the moment the heating is working but like i said earlier this morning when it was turned on from cold it was cutting out a few times but eventually kept going, although it is semi ok i am still concerned about it.
I want to pay the guy but in return i want a working boiler - simple really.
Think i will contact trading standards tomorrow to see what they say.
Cheers for the replies people.
P.S Do you think it is the water pump that is at fault? If so i will buy a new one from Halstead.
When i called him back he tinkered about with it again got it going and said the water pump looks iffy, then after it leaked from the bottom nut that holds it in i called him again and told him i wasn't happy because of the price i had paid him for a job and that to me the job has only increased in problems, he took a little offence to this and said he had been doing it for 20 odd years or so and that his judgement was better then mine.
He did come out again and this is the time he messed about with the water pump heads changing the old one for another one that he had, he had to modify it to make it fit but it still leaks (i had no leaks on the boiler before hand) i had to dash out of the house of this 3rd visit so i only saw him for 10 minutes or so and left him to it.
At the moment the heating is working but like i said earlier this morning when it was turned on from cold it was cutting out a few times but eventually kept going, although it is semi ok i am still concerned about it.
I want to pay the guy but in return i want a working boiler - simple really.
Think i will contact trading standards tomorrow to see what they say.
Cheers for the replies people.
P.S Do you think it is the water pump that is at fault? If so i will buy a new one from Halstead.
Intermittent faults are always difficult. If it won't go wrong in front of him, he may not be very sure what's failed. If he puts new parts in and it doesn't fix the boiler, do you expect him to remove them and not charge you anything?
The rrp for the sensors he replaced is over £30 + vat, each.
If his experience tells him they're a likely component, then it's reasonable to change them, isn't it? They often fail in a way you can't easily test for.
If he tells you the sensor resistances had drifted from the new values, surely he's justified in changing them?
How long did he test the boiler for? If it was more than the period the boiler usually fails in, what's he done wrong? Boiler fixing is not always an absolute - when they're old, nothing works like new, things sludge up, and so on. It can be impossible to tell what has been the "last straw".
If he waited 10 minutes and it was OK, and it sometimes only fails after an hour, what do you expect him to do?
There are those here who will tell you that they can ALWAYS completely fault find a boiler at one visit. They aren't necessarily telling the truth! I certainly can't guarantee to do that. Like cars, they can muck you about.
You pay for the guy's time, judgement and best efforts. If it doesn't yield the result you want, franky it can in all fairness be just tough. If the bolier had better diagnostics it would help- there's practically nothing on that boiler. If your car goes wrong or you see your doctor to fix something and it doesn't work, do you get your money back? NEVER! There is no NHS for boilers!
Yes he should stop the leak.
If he DOES see the fault occuring then he should be able to eliminate a few possible causes. In my experience of these boilers. intermittent faults often lead to the pcb needing replacement - very expensive!
The rrp for the sensors he replaced is over £30 + vat, each.
If his experience tells him they're a likely component, then it's reasonable to change them, isn't it? They often fail in a way you can't easily test for.
If he tells you the sensor resistances had drifted from the new values, surely he's justified in changing them?
How long did he test the boiler for? If it was more than the period the boiler usually fails in, what's he done wrong? Boiler fixing is not always an absolute - when they're old, nothing works like new, things sludge up, and so on. It can be impossible to tell what has been the "last straw".
If he waited 10 minutes and it was OK, and it sometimes only fails after an hour, what do you expect him to do?
There are those here who will tell you that they can ALWAYS completely fault find a boiler at one visit. They aren't necessarily telling the truth! I certainly can't guarantee to do that. Like cars, they can muck you about.
You pay for the guy's time, judgement and best efforts. If it doesn't yield the result you want, franky it can in all fairness be just tough. If the bolier had better diagnostics it would help- there's practically nothing on that boiler. If your car goes wrong or you see your doctor to fix something and it doesn't work, do you get your money back? NEVER! There is no NHS for boilers!
Yes he should stop the leak.
If he DOES see the fault occuring then he should be able to eliminate a few possible causes. In my experience of these boilers. intermittent faults often lead to the pcb needing replacement - very expensive!
Spot on Chris
Perhaps the engineer should have hung around for another hour and added another 100quid to the bill. Wouldn't that look nice on rouge traders. Got to make sure it's ok Gov
I had an invoice from my Solicitors a while back, there was aboud 20 enteries of 10mins for thinking time at 200 odd quid an hour thats a lot of thinking.
The OP may also not be aware that it's illegal to stop a cheque, and many banks will refuse to do it.
Perhaps the engineer should have hung around for another hour and added another 100quid to the bill. Wouldn't that look nice on rouge traders. Got to make sure it's ok Gov
I had an invoice from my Solicitors a while back, there was aboud 20 enteries of 10mins for thinking time
at 200 odd quid an hour thats a lot of thinking.The OP may also not be aware that it's illegal to stop a cheque, and many banks will refuse to do it.
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Nicely put, ChrisR.
Wish I could say the same about these comments ;
Apparently ChrisHutt from Togo thinks it is OK for you to pay nothing to the gas fitter and stop the cheque - but if you call him out, a 'callout charge' is justified and payable. He may deem to negotiate the rest of his charge.
Moral of the story:
1. Read both posts to assess the voracity of the 'expert'.
2. Don't call people out from Togo.
Wish I could say the same about these comments ;
Apparently ChrisHutt from Togo thinks it is OK for you to pay nothing to the gas fitter and stop the cheque - but if you call him out, a 'callout charge' is justified and payable. He may deem to negotiate the rest of his charge.
Moral of the story:
1. Read both posts to assess the voracity of the 'expert'.
2. Don't call people out from Togo.
Anyone can quote selectively, Simon. We are told that he left the boiler leaking from the pump even after his third visit, as well as failing to fix the original problem. That was the basis on which I said I'd stop the cheque.
However I had no idea that spare thermistors for Halsteads were so expensive (I've never worked on one - in fact I don't think I've ever seen one, they must be rare in Togo). If they're really £30 + VAT each then £115 seems quite reasonable.
However I had no idea that spare thermistors for Halsteads were so expensive (I've never worked on one - in fact I don't think I've ever seen one, they must be rare in Togo). If they're really £30 + VAT each then £115 seems quite reasonable.
I am brand new to this forum and have found this thread very informative.
I have swung from "robbin Bas&*ard right round to feeling sorry for the guy.
I will try to change my lifelong attitude (feckin plumbers) to one of a more measured thoughtful approach.
Thanks for the lesson and input
Mark/ UK I hope this gets resolved soon, good luck
Les
I have swung from "robbin Bas&*ard right round to feeling sorry for the guy.
I will try to change my lifelong attitude (feckin plumbers) to one of a more measured thoughtful approach.
Thanks for the lesson and input
Mark/ UK I hope this gets resolved soon, good luck
Les
It's never easy!
In practice, the smaller independent will often take some pity on the owner and do some work or try a part free, whereas the big companies can't be flexible. For them, every minute on site has to be paid for.
In practice, the smaller independent will often take some pity on the owner and do some work or try a part free, whereas the big companies can't be flexible. For them, every minute on site has to be paid for.
*Update*
Okay i have decided to let the cheque go and "bite the bullet" only because the boiler seems to be operating now (so i guess we have found the problem) however i still have a massive water leak from the pump when the boiler isn't in use, at least i now know (hopefully) that if i buy a new pump from halstead i won't have a water leak and the boiler should be ok. Very suprised the pump went after 4 odd years though!
Regarding the engineer well i can safely say that i wont be calling him ever again, it's guys like him that give you decent chaps a bad name.
Okay i have decided to let the cheque go and "bite the bullet" only because the boiler seems to be operating now (so i guess we have found the problem) however i still have a massive water leak from the pump when the boiler isn't in use, at least i now know (hopefully) that if i buy a new pump from halstead i won't have a water leak and the boiler should be ok. Very suprised the pump went after 4 odd years though!
Regarding the engineer well i can safely say that i wont be calling him ever again, it's guys like him that give you decent chaps a bad name.
We charge a fixed price diagnostic fee of only £84 and just parts are extra.
This is on a no-fix no-fee basis. I have never yet been unable to diagnose any fault though.
The fellow whose boiler I had repaired with the faulty motor valve would only have had to pay for the cost of the replacement valve head if he had just approached me reasonably and agreed to pay for the part.
We will have to see how the CORGI inspector handles it. I dont have full confidence in their capabilities as if they were fully competent with boilers and heating systems they would not want low paid CORGI jobs.
It might have been better if the owner had complained to the IPHE instead as their volunteers are more experienced.
Tony
This is on a no-fix no-fee basis. I have never yet been unable to diagnose any fault though.
The fellow whose boiler I had repaired with the faulty motor valve would only have had to pay for the cost of the replacement valve head if he had just approached me reasonably and agreed to pay for the part.
We will have to see how the CORGI inspector handles it. I dont have full confidence in their capabilities as if they were fully competent with boilers and heating systems they would not want low paid CORGI jobs.
It might have been better if the owner had complained to the IPHE instead as their volunteers are more experienced.
Tony
I don't follow your logic.
Have you moaned about the leak?
You could buy a new pump, from Halstead if your nose is your payment channel. But you need a fitter to stop the leak. One of them could do that with your current pump!?
Have you moaned about the leak?
You could buy a new pump, from Halstead if your nose is your payment channel. But you need a fitter to stop the leak. One of them could do that with your current pump!?
ChrisR as i stated before the pump IS apparently the problem thats why the dodgy fitter swapped heads from another pump only the head didn't fit properly but it was a measure he took to see if it was the pump, hence why i have a water leak.
I just don't want that fitter no where near this boiler again.
I just don't want that fitter no where near this boiler again.
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