no power light on Accenta alarm

[alphaalarms]

did ya get it sorted?

 

[saxondale]

please guys, can you give me the actual procedure for changing a battery on my system.

many thanks

like I said - ignore the doomsayer (he`s actually a plasterer)

 

[joe-90]

Do as alphaalarms has told you. That is the way the manufacturers tell you. Saxondale thinks he knows better than ALL the manufacturers but can't tell us why.

Come on Saxondale let's have the technical argument. (he won't)

 

[bernardgreen]

OK Joe ( and apologies to the original poster that his question has created a battle field )

First my "qualifications", 40 years as an electronics engineer, including design and development of systems as varied as telephone exchanges, radio paging equipment and systems to industrial control systems.

You may be right in your quotations from the manufacturer's install and service manual. But that manual cannot and does not cover every situation and experienced engineers can and do find processes to cover the situations the manual does not cover. One sign of a good design engineer is that he or she listens to the experienced service engineer before during and after the design process. The manual often gets revised and updated in the light of information coming from service engineers. Or at least it should be up-dated but some companies do not do so.

Or in short for those with short concentration spans,. The manual is not always correct for every situation.

 

[joe-90]

I've installed over a thousand alarms, Bernard. I still run the maintenance side of the business (that I own). It is sheer folly to tell an inexperienced poster to mess about with mains electricity when it is neither desirable nor necessary.
I will ask you what I ask Saxo - what benefit is there to firing up a panel with lumpy voltage spikey mains as opposed to safe and smooth battery?
The manufactures have been printing the same instructions in their manuals for over 20 years (that I know of). If it were wrong - don't you think that someone would have noticed by now?

BTW, I'm on your ignore list.

 

[bernardgreen]

I will ask you what I ask Saxo - what benefit is there to firing up a panel with lumpy voltage spikey mains as opposed to safe and smooth battery?

The mains power unit is likely to provide reasonable clean power at the correct voltage for the components on the control panel whether or not the battery is fitted. It is designed for that task and to cope with no battery present , battery fuse blown, dead battery or whatever reason the battery is non effective. So lumpy spikey mains will not be destructive if the battery is missing.

If however the battery is connected in the absence of mains and the battery voltage is below the design minimum then the supply to the board will be below minimum design for an extended period of time.

There are many ways this low voltage operation can affect equipment.

Just consider one that can be explained in simple terms.

The low supply voltage may be a voltage at which logic devices cannot operate as logic but enter an analogue state. The analogue state is where the logic outputs have both pull up and pull down devices turned on at the same time creating a semi-conductor short circuit between tow power rails. This results in the current through them being many times higher then they can carry continuously and they either fail immediately or become partly damaged. Known as "parametric damage" this damage can leave the unit apparent working normally but progressive and non reversible decay of the devices has been started.

All equipment will go through a short period of voltage induced analogue mode as power is applied. The design process takes into account how long the devices can be in analogue mode before parametric damage occurs and the rise time and/or sequential application of power is designed to prevent parametric damage occuring.

The manufactures have been printing the same instructions in their manuals for over 20 years (that I know of). If it were wrong - don't you think that someone would have noticed by now?

Some have noticed it.

BTW, I'm on your ignore list.

Yes I know, but sometimes there is a need to not ignore.

 

[joe-90]

For heaven's sake Bernard - I've been doing it by the manual for decades - and it works. There is no need whatsoever to fire up mains first - ever.

If an alarm won't fire up battery first then you can rest assured that it won't fire up mains first. I try it every time I have a duff panel that won't come back to normal operation - but it never works.

Now if you think it is clever telling an absolute amateur to mess around with mains voltage for no good reason then you are a menace.

Now put me on your ignore list (not pretending) and we'll all get on famously.

 

[saxondale]

thanks Bernard as you have worked out I`m not nor ever claimed to be technically knowledgable to your level, just someone out in the field making these devices work

 

[joe-90]

But it works just as well if you do it according to the book and do it safely. Bernard is just guessing (and not very well). Mains first can cause spikes that destroy the microprocessor.

 

[saxondale]

But it works just as well if you do it according to the book and do it safely. Bernard is just guessing (and not very well). Mains first can cause spikes that destroy the microprocessor.

make your mind up fool - last week you were saying do it as the manual says ie mains first the first time

or does something magical happen when the systems been live for a week?



you do it your way - i`ll just keep taking the money from your customers when you can`t get it running, quite simple really

 

[Barsteward]

I'm sorry mate, but all the bluster in the world isn't going to make you right when you are wrong. The instructions from the manufacturer are clear and they ALL say BATTERY FIRST, (as had been pointed out by alpha alarms.)

There is a sticky with loads of manuals at the top of this forum - I suggest you read a few.

Tell you what, you tell us the technical reason why you think you should power up mains first and I'll prove you wrong. Oh I forgot - you have no technical knowledge do you.

Oh dear, the plasterer speaks his usual drivel again.
Explain to all why you quote ad nauseum that same tired statement without answering correctly.

I ask you yet again, just what makes you so expert on what the manufacturers state in their manuals??

 

[arsenal401]

did ya get it sorted?

gotta pick a battery up first.

any recomendations on the best place to get one?...maplin?

 

[bernardgreen]

thanks Bernard as you have worked out I`m not nor ever claimed to be technically knowledgable to your level, just someone out in the field making these devices work

Your special skills are needed to cope with the situations the designer / specifier didn't see before the design was completed. Feedback from people like you is essential.

 

[joe-90]

But it works just as well if you do it according to the book and do it safely. Bernard is just guessing (and not very well). Mains first can cause spikes that destroy the microprocessor.

make your mind up fool - last week you were saying do it as the manual says ie mains first the first time

or does something magical happen when the systems been live for a week?



you do it your way - i`ll just keep taking the money from your customers when you can`t get it running, quite simple really

Only fools ignore the manufacturers instructions and tell unqualified posters to muck around with mains voltages.

Why don't you advise the manufacturers (all of them) that they are wrong and Saxondale is right?

 

[joe-90]

I'm sorry mate, but all the bluster in the world isn't going to make you right when you are wrong. The instructions from the manufacturer are clear and they ALL say BATTERY FIRST, (as had been pointed out by alpha alarms.)

There is a sticky with loads of manuals at the top of this forum - I suggest you read a few.

Tell you what, you tell us the technical reason why you think you should power up mains first and I'll prove you wrong. Oh I forgot - you have no technical knowledge do you.

I ask you yet again, just what makes you so expert on what the manufacturers state in their manuals??

I can read.