No stop cock, plastic water mains, earth bonding?

[byronsmith]

Hi all,

Had an electrician come do a certification on our house. Not that I don't trust his judgement but I always like to get a second opinion.

He says that we need to earth bond our water mains at the stop cock, however, we do not have a stop cock and the water mains that comes in under the suspended floor looks all plastic.

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• byronsmith
• 22 Nov 2014
• 1

it's worth noting that the electrician hasn't seen this photo, as I took it after I got back from work when he had already left the property. I will be showing him on Monday.

Couple of questions:

1. do we need an internal stop cock? I know the location of the outside one so is an internal one necessary?

2. Looking at the image, it all looks like plastic to me. How would the leccy bond his earth to that?

3. the house has been plumbed with a mixture of both plastic and copper. The gas has been earth bonded with 10mm cable. Would we need to earth bond all the copper even if it's mixed with plastic? if so, would it still need to be bonded with 10mm earthing cable?

Thanks
Byron

 

[JohnW2]

Had an electrician come do a certification on our house. Not that I don't trust his judgement but I always like to get a second opinion. ... He says that we need to earth bond our water mains at the stop cock, however, we do not have a stop cock and the water mains that comes in under the suspended floor looks all plastic.

If it is true that the water supply enters the house as plastic, then no main bonding of the water pipework is needed at all. It's as simple as that.

If there is no internal stopcock , that seems strange, but it's nothing to do with anything electrical (or electrical regulations), and I don't know whether there are any 'water/plumbing regulations' which require it. Your photo shows a plastic pipe appearing through a gap in some brickwork - is that actually where the water supply 'enters your house'? If is is, you certainly don't need any main bonding of water pipes, even if some in the house are metal.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

I would be suprised if that 15mm pipe to the left is the actual main from the street. I rather think that there is another connection, somewhere, that you are not aware of.

I also do not know plumbing/water regulations, but I doubt that you are allowed to terminate the incoming mains direct on to a 15mm push fit connector. I also think/hope that you must have a stop cock before any branch.

 

[JohnW2]

I would be suprised if that 15mm pipe to the left is the actual main from the street. I rather think that there is another connection, somewhere, that you are not aware of.

I agree. However, if that pipe is emerging through the foundations of an outside wall, it's difficult to understand what else can be going on - and there clearly is not anything on the house side of those foundations that could, or should, be bonded.

I also do not know plumbing/water regulations, but I doubt that you are allowed to terminate the incoming mains direct on to a 15mm push fit connector. I also think/hope that you must have a stop cock before any branch.

Again, I would think the same.

Kind Regards, John

 

[byronsmith]

Hi there, you're correct. There was another pipe just to the left of that pipe that I marked as mains. I believe the blue pipe in the image below is the mains. And that is definitely plastic.

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• byronsmith
• 22 Nov 2014
• 1

Also on a side note, I've just realised that in the picture above the earth bond which I thought was connected to the gas seems to be lieing on the ground no connected!!!

Shoddy to say the least. Guess I'll have to sort out my claustrophobia as that is under the flooring with no way to lift it easily.

 

[JohnW2]

Hi there, you're correct. There was another pipe just to the left of that pipe that I marked as mains. I believe the blue pipe in the image below is the mains. And that is definitely plastic.... Also on a side note, I've just realised that in the picture above the earth bond which I thought was connected to the gas seems to be lieing on the ground no connected!!!

That (the unbonded gas pipe) is clearly bad/wrong/unacceptable, and needs to be sorted out. However, as I said initially, if you're sure that the water supply enters the house in plastic, then there is absolutely no main bonding of any water pipes required - whatever your electrician might think!

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

1. do we need an internal stop cock? I know the location of the outside one so is an internal one necessary?

Yes, as the outside one isn't intended for you to use, it most likely belongs to your water supplier. Technically you need permission from them to operate it. If you operate it and then break it, they will charge you a substantial sum for repairs.

2. Looking at the image, it all looks like plastic to me. How would the leccy bond his earth to that?

They won't. Plastic pipes do not require bonding.

You should get an internal stopcock fitted as soon as possible.
That pushfit connection is a massive leak waiting to happen, as the pipes are unsupported.
No insulation either, so damage from freezing temperatures is also a possibility.

 

[stardanny]

As you has a blue plastic pipe, there might possible be a stopcock hidden somewhere under those rubbish as you need some sort of connector ( usually a stopcock ) to connect blue plastic pipe to Hep pipe. Clear out those rubbish and you might see it.

In the Water regulation, the internal stopcock must be fitted above finished floor, where it come in from underground.

Daniel.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If supply pipework is insulated/MDPE, it does not require to be bonded, that goes for both water and gas.
I would be surprised if you did not have an internal stop tap, but it is not unheard of to have a stop tap external of the property.
But if there is no means of isolating the water within the property, I would recommend one is installed followed by a drain-off valve.
There should be an external stop, either within your boundary or often just outside the boundary wall that will allow for isolation for an internal stop tap to be fitted. The water undertaker will not reprimand you for using the external tap, just make sure your neighbours are aware, as sometimes they are shared between properties.

 

[Steve]

As PBoD says, external stop taps are often shared between properties, so relying on that may strain neighbourly relations if you need to isolate your house for any period of time. I understand water regs require an internal stop tap as external taps can be hard to access.

 

[byronsmith]

Thanks all for the replies, very useful indeed.